[puredyne] laptop recommendations?

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ddw_music ddw_music
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[puredyne] laptop recommendations?


I posted this over at the electro-music.com forum, where it landed with an anechoic thud.

I remember there was a thread on this list about machine recommendations, but that was for netbooks. I'm starting to research heavier-duty laptops to use as a home-studio machine (which can also be taken out for gigs).

An addendum to the forum post is that I read somewhere that Toshiba laptops score high on reliability.

Thanks!
James

---
Thinking ahead (not making an immediate move)...

My trusty MacBook Pro is getting a bit on in years (four years old now) -- no hardware problems to speak of yet, but this is approaching the mean time to fail for laptop hard drives. At the same time, I've been using puredyne Linux on a netbook and enjoying it a lot. (I'd also consider ubuntu studio but don't need the recent flashy gnome stuff - puredyne uses xfce4 which, while antiquated vis-à-vis UI features, is FAST.)

So I'm thinking... rather than wait for my MBP to die and then making a rush decision, better to research viable Linux audio machines now. (Also good to get a new machine and have plenty of time to configure it while the Mac is still up and running.)

I'm looking for:

- a laptop, to take out for live performances;
- fast CPU -- I intend this as my main production machine;
- it does not have to be especially lightweight -- I have a netbook for traveling;
- HD speed is valuable but not critical -- I mostly use supercollider and I'm not playing back multiple sound files at the same time (as is typical in DAWs);
- FireWire connector (or card slot for a FW adapter) is a must (my MOTU UltraLite still works perfectly and is old enough to be reportedly supported by FFADO).

I'm wondering what machines people recommend for reliability and performance. I heard on the sc-users list that ThinkPads were the most common machine at the last Linux audio conference, but I don't need to follow the crowd if there's something better.

---

--

James Harkins /// dewdrop world
[hidden email]
http://www.dewdrop-world.net

"Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal." -- Whitman

blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
audio clips: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/audio
more audio: http://soundcloud.com/dewdrop_world/tracks


---
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http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
Ricardo Gabriel Herdt Ricardo Gabriel Herdt
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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/most-least-reliable-notebooks-laptops,9102.html

2010/7/6 James Harkins <[hidden email]>:

>
> I posted this over at the electro-music.com forum, where it landed with an
> anechoic thud.
>
> I remember there was a thread on this list about machine recommendations,
> but that was for netbooks. I'm starting to research heavier-duty laptops to
> use as a home-studio machine (which can also be taken out for gigs).
>
> An addendum to the forum post is that I read somewhere that Toshiba laptops
> score high on reliability.
>
> Thanks!
> James
>

---
[hidden email]
http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
Lukasz Jastrzebski Lukasz Jastrzebski
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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

In reply to this post by ddw_music
Hi!

Agreed with Toshibas - this will be probably my buy this autumn (old t30
broke down in july - after 8 years of continuous exploatation, last 4
years it was on for 16 hours a day, 7 days a week).

ThinkPads are reliable - T-series would suit your needs. Thinkwiki.org
will provide you the information needed when you work with Linux and
help you to avoid or solve any problems. Also you can make a comparison
between lines and models. ThinkPads are my personal reccomendation, but
I'm using very old hardware. I have got in my hands only one
Lenovo-branded unit (T60) and it was as solid, as IBMs used to were.
IdeaPad (is this how the budget fancy line is called?) is crap just like
every other cheap stuff. Dunno how are new ThinkPads manufactured, but
definitely stay away from IdeaPads.
Other brand worth consideration is Dell - but again, I have not much
experience. Asus laptops are looking cheap, but the brand seems to be
really concerned of not having too much hardware failures. Again I can
provide no details.

Laptops in general should not be considered as "power horses". Fast ones
are just crazy hot and eat up baterries fast. Sure enough for any gig
anyway.
Be sure to check the noise level when cable-powered, my small laptop
(ThinkPad X31) is little bit noisy when on AC (i mean both internal
sound card makes more noise and CPU sometimes emit sounds).

Avoid glossy/glaze LCD matrix, take trackpoint rather than touchpad, but
that is more than obvious.

If you are going to use Linux software on stage, just drop us a line,
maybe someone somehow somewhere will show up ;)

Cheers,
Luke


W dniu 2010-07-06 16:38, James Harkins pisze:

>
> I posted this over at the electro-music.com forum, where it landed with
> an anechoic thud.
>
> I remember there was a thread on this list about machine
> recommendations, but that was for netbooks. I'm starting to research
> heavier-duty laptops to use as a home-studio machine (which can also be
> taken out for gigs).
>
> An addendum to the forum post is that I read somewhere that Toshiba
> laptops score high on reliability.
>
> Thanks!
> James
>
> ---
> Thinking ahead (not making an immediate move)...
>
> My trusty MacBook Pro is getting a bit on in years (four years old now)
> -- no hardware problems to speak of yet, but this is approaching the
> mean time to fail for laptop hard drives. At the same time, I've been
> using puredyne Linux on a netbook and enjoying it a lot. (I'd also
> consider ubuntu studio but don't need the recent flashy gnome stuff -
> puredyne uses xfce4 which, while antiquated vis-à-vis UI features, is
> FAST.)
>
> So I'm thinking... rather than wait for my MBP to die and then making a
> rush decision, better to research viable Linux audio machines now. (Also
> good to get a new machine and have plenty of time to configure it while
> the Mac is still up and running.)
>
> I'm looking for:
>
> - a laptop, to take out for live performances;
> - fast CPU -- I intend this as my main production machine;
> - it does not have to be especially lightweight -- I have a netbook for
> traveling;
> - HD speed is valuable but not critical -- I mostly use supercollider
> and I'm not playing back multiple sound files at the same time (as is
> typical in DAWs);
> - FireWire connector (or card slot for a FW adapter) is a must (my MOTU
> UltraLite still works perfectly and is old enough to be reportedly
> supported by FFADO).
>
> I'm wondering what machines people recommend for reliability and
> performance. I heard on the sc-users list that ThinkPads were the most
> common machine at the last Linux audio conference, but I don't need to
> follow the crowd if there's something better.
> ---
>
> --
>
> James Harkins /// dewdrop world
> [hidden email]
> http://www.dewdrop-world.net
>
> "Come said the Muse,
> Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
> Sing me the universal." -- Whitman
>
> blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
> audio clips: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/audio
> more audio: http://soundcloud.com/dewdrop_world/tracks
>
>
>
> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne


---
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irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
Bernardo Barros Bernardo Barros
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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

Yes, I've heard that Lenovo ThinkPad T and W series (like W510) are
really great machines, but I can't tell the difference between these
two series. I'm about to but a new laptop too, I'm thinking about
these  James, but I wonder if in such a modern computer is still a big
difference in speed between Gnome and Xfce? Do you have experience
with Fedora/CCRMA? It's been there for a while but I did't try it yet
so I can't compare with Puredyne. Maybe it need more time for
configuration? I don't know..

---
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irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
padawan12@obiwannabe.co.uk padawan12@obiwannabe.co.uk
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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

In reply to this post by Lukasz Jastrzebski


I'll add to Lukasz remark here. Five years ago I
was gigging with a setup that went into a small
bag, based around mini-itx. Had seductive netbooks
like the eeepc not come along I might have
continued experiments with ever smaller
and more powerful CPU boxes and tried to find thinner
and lighter 12" or 14" displays. If there is power
and a projector that you will use at the venue then
laptops don't necessarily represent the best CPU power
to size+weight (or cost) ratio.

a.








On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 18:33:50 +0200
Lukasz Jastrzebski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Laptops in general should not be considered as "power horses". Fast ones
> are just crazy hot and eat up baterries fast. Sure enough for any gig
> anyway.

--
Andy Farnell <[hidden email]>

---
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JNM JNM
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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

In reply to this post by ddw_music


hello

As a promoter of the zerodollarlaptop project, I would suggest that:

- you only change your harddisk for a better, faster one, may be a ssd,

- install a double or triple or quadruple boot, to have any distro
you want. My mac with double boot puredyne and osx is perfectly
working. (boot with efi)

About the zerodollarlaptopproject:
-industry of computers is a disaster, in terms of mining, ressources,
politics, ecology, society, human costs
-most of our computers have reached a sufficient level of performances.
-growth is impossible to sustain if we want to live on this planet.

Read the manifesto:

http://zerodollarlaptop.org/wiki/doku.php?id=minimanifesto


JN




>
>
>My trusty MacBook Pro is getting a bit on in years (four years old now)
>-- no hardware problems to speak of yet, but this is approaching the
>mean time to fail for laptop hard drives. At the same time, I've been
>using puredyne Linux on a netbook and enjoying it a lot. (I'd also
>consider ubuntu studio but don't need the recent flashy gnome stuff -
>puredyne uses xfce4 which, while antiquated vis-?-vis UI features, is
>FAST.)

---
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http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
Olm-e Olm-e
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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

I second that suggestion, I currently still use laptop bought in 2002 (yes
8 year old! ) and still can do a lot of stuff with it... (including
youtube browsing, music making, pd patches, etc ... )
for the record, there was some measurement done not long ago showing
today's top smartphone are as powerful as the CRAY I from the 80's  ...
are we sure we always need a supercomputer in our pocket/bag ?

Ol.

>
>
> hello
>
> As a promoter of the zerodollarlaptop project, I would suggest that:
>
> - you only change your harddisk for a better, faster one, may be a ssd,
>
> - install a double or triple or quadruple boot, to have any distro
> you want. My mac with double boot puredyne and osx is perfectly
> working. (boot with efi)
>
> About the zerodollarlaptopproject:
> -industry of computers is a disaster, in terms of mining, ressources,
> politics, ecology, society, human costs
> -most of our computers have reached a sufficient level of performances.
> -growth is impossible to sustain if we want to live on this planet.
>
> Read the manifesto:
>
> http://zerodollarlaptop.org/wiki/doku.php?id=minimanifesto
>
>
> JN
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>My trusty MacBook Pro is getting a bit on in years (four years old now)
>>-- no hardware problems to speak of yet, but this is approaching the
>>mean time to fail for laptop hard drives. At the same time, I've been
>>using puredyne Linux on a netbook and enjoying it a lot. (I'd also
>>consider ubuntu studio but don't need the recent flashy gnome stuff -
>>puredyne uses xfce4 which, while antiquated vis-?-vis UI features, is
>>FAST.)
>
> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
>



---
[hidden email]
http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
Kereoz Kereoz
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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

In reply to this post by ddw_music
You might want to take a look at those new lenovo Thinkpads, especially
the X series.

I have been using a thinkpad x60s with OpenBSD/PureDyne for a while now, and I'm very happy with it.
It is very lightweight, hardware works great with opensource drivers, and it has good baery life.
This one is an IBM though, but still it seems to what I heard that
thinkpads remain highly reliable.

Compared to my MBP (probably the same as you have, revision 1,1), also
running OpenBSD/PureDyne, hardware works better and out of the box when it comes to have free
software only (even though the mac is now old enough to have
okay-working drivers). I think this is an important aspect to take into
consideration if you don't want to mess around with -mm patches and so
:)

--
またな
Kereoz

On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 10:38:18PM +0800, James Harkins wrote:

>
> I posted this over at the electro-music.com forum, where it landed with  
> an anechoic thud.
>
> I remember there was a thread on this list about machine  
> recommendations, but that was for netbooks. I'm starting to research  
> heavier-duty laptops to use as a home-studio machine (which can also be  
> taken out for gigs).
>
> An addendum to the forum post is that I read somewhere that Toshiba  
> laptops score high on reliability.
>
> Thanks!
> James
>
> ---
> Thinking ahead (not making an immediate move)...
>
> My trusty MacBook Pro is getting a bit on in years (four years old now)  
> -- no hardware problems to speak of yet, but this is approaching the  
> mean time to fail for laptop hard drives. At the same time, I've been  
> using puredyne Linux on a netbook and enjoying it a lot. (I'd also  
> consider ubuntu studio but don't need the recent flashy gnome stuff -  
> puredyne uses xfce4 which, while antiquated vis-à-vis UI features, is  
> FAST.)
>
> So I'm thinking... rather than wait for my MBP to die and then making a  
> rush decision, better to research viable Linux audio machines now. (Also  
> good to get a new machine and have plenty of time to configure it while  
> the Mac is still up and running.)
>
> I'm looking for:
>
> - a laptop, to take out for live performances;
> - fast CPU -- I intend this as my main production machine;
> - it does not have to be especially lightweight -- I have a netbook for  
> traveling;
> - HD speed is valuable but not critical -- I mostly use supercollider  
> and I'm not playing back multiple sound files at the same time (as is  
> typical in DAWs);
> - FireWire connector (or card slot for a FW adapter) is a must (my MOTU  
> UltraLite still works perfectly and is old enough to be reportedly  
> supported by FFADO).
>
> I'm wondering what machines people recommend for reliability and  
> performance. I heard on the sc-users list that ThinkPads were the most  
> common machine at the last Linux audio conference, but I don't need to  
> follow the crowd if there's something better.
> ---
>
> --
>
> James Harkins /// dewdrop world
> [hidden email]
> http://www.dewdrop-world.net
>
> "Come said the Muse,
> Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
> Sing me the universal." -- Whitman
>
> blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
> audio clips: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/audio
> more audio: http://soundcloud.com/dewdrop_world/tracks
>

> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne



---
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http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
marc garrett marc garrett
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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

In reply to this post by Olm-e
Hi there,

Good discussion and great to see a reference here, regarding the Zero
Dollar Laptop project...

We have been collaborating with Access Space, on this project in London
and are also in the process of getting other projects set in motion
regarding ZDL.

We have recently finished working with Homeless groups/individuals in
London ST Mungos; who were involved taking part with 8-12 week
workshops, learning how to smash Windows, and replace recycled/reused
laptops with Linux. After the workshops finished they walked away with
skils and a free laptop.

Here is a link to the project if anyone is interested in knowing more:
http://www.furtherfield.org/zerodollarlaptop/

wishing all well.

marc

http://www.furtherfield.org



 > I second that suggestion, I currently still use laptop bought in 2002
(yes
 > 8 year old! ) and still can do a lot of stuff with it... (including
 > youtube browsing, music making, pd patches, etc ... )
 > for the record, there was some measurement done not long ago showing
 > today's top smartphone are as powerful as the CRAY I from the 80's  ...
 > are we sure we always need a supercomputer in our pocket/bag ?
 >
 > Ol.
 >
 >>
 >> hello
 >>
 >> As a promoter of the zerodollarlaptop project, I would suggest that:
 >>
 >> - you only change your harddisk for a better, faster one, may be a ssd,
 >>
 >> - install a double or triple or quadruple boot, to have any distro
 >> you want. My mac with double boot puredyne and osx is perfectly
 >> working. (boot with efi)
 >>
 >> About the zerodollarlaptopproject:
 >> -industry of computers is a disaster, in terms of mining, ressources,
 >> politics, ecology, society, human costs
 >> -most of our computers have reached a sufficient level of performances.
 >> -growth is impossible to sustain if we want to live on this planet.
 >>
 >> Read the manifesto:
 >>
 >> http://zerodollarlaptop.org/wiki/doku.php?id=minimanifesto
 >>
 >>
 >> JN
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>>
 >>> My trusty MacBook Pro is getting a bit on in years (four years old now)
 >>> -- no hardware problems to speak of yet, but this is approaching the
 >>> mean time to fail for laptop hard drives. At the same time, I've been
 >>> using puredyne Linux on a netbook and enjoying it a lot. (I'd also
 >>> consider ubuntu studio but don't need the recent flashy gnome stuff -
 >>> puredyne uses xfce4 which, while antiquated vis-?-vis UI features, is
 >>> FAST.)
 >> ---
 >> [hidden email]
 >> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
 >> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
 >>
 >
 >
 >
 > ---
 > [hidden email]
 > http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
 > irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
 >


---
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ddw_music ddw_music
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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

In reply to this post by JNM
On 7/7/10 6:46 PM, Jean-Noël Montagné wrote:
> hello
>
> As a promoter of the zerodollarlaptop project, I would suggest that:
>
> - you only change your harddisk for a better, faster one, may be a ssd,
>
> - install a double or triple or quadruple boot, to have any distro you
> want. My mac with double boot puredyne and osx is perfectly working.
> (boot with efi)

Compelling ideas indeed -- if everything is fine about the computer
except an aging hard drive (which hasn't crashed yet), I don't have a
persuasive reason to junk the whole machine.

On that note -- how hard would it be to remap ctrl to the Apple command
key, and "enter" to be an alternate option key? The MBP keyboard is
complete crap for Emacs, which would be my primary supercollider
interface (actually it already is in OSX by way of Aquamacs). Without
this remapping, the ergonomics would be disastrous.

Lukasz:

> Laptops in general should not be considered as "power horses". Fast
> ones are just crazy hot and eat up baterries fast. Sure enough for any
> gig anyway.

I suppose some of that depends on what you use. Supercollider doesn't
waste cycles on a flashy GUI and its DSP units are well optimized. It's
really rare for me to go above 25% CPU for DSP, even in live real-time
work (I write my DSP graphs with efficiency in mind also). So I don't
need the kind of power horse you would need for a DAW but I do need
something that will let me code in an airport or on the bus if a gig is
out of town (which Andy's suggestion wouldn't). My netbook is fine for
light sketching but FFT drives it into the ground pretty fast -- so I
need more horsepower than that!

Bernardo:

> I wonder if in such a modern computer is still a big
> difference in speed between Gnome and Xfce?

Probably not, but I see a lot of clutter in recent Gnome screenshots.
I'm finding the simplicity and cleanliness of xfce4 to be very pleasant,
even compared to OSX and its boasting about a refined user experience.

Thanks for all the ideas! Plenty to consider.

James


--

James Harkins /// dewdrop world
[hidden email]
http://www.dewdrop-world.net

"Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal." -- Whitman

blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
audio clips: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/audio
more audio: http://soundcloud.com/dewdrop_world/tracks


---
[hidden email]
http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
Ricardo Gabriel Herdt Ricardo Gabriel Herdt
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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

2010/7/7 James Harkins <[hidden email]>:
>
> On that note -- how hard would it be to remap ctrl to the Apple command key,
> and "enter" to be an alternate option key? The MBP keyboard is complete crap
> for Emacs, which would be my primary supercollider interface (actually it
> already is in OSX by way of Aquamacs). Without this remapping, the
> ergonomics would be disastrous.
>

on puredyne you can use xmodmap.

> Bernardo:
>
>> I wonder if in such a modern computer is still a big
>> difference in speed between Gnome and Xfce?
>
> Probably not, but I see a lot of clutter in recent Gnome screenshots. I'm
> finding the simplicity and cleanliness of xfce4 to be very pleasant, even
> compared to OSX and its boasting about a refined user experience.
>

Xfce and others are a bit more responsive. But Gnome can also be fast,
it depends on how your distro set it up by default (on debian, for
example, I find it faster than Ubuntu's default install).

---
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Damaru Damaru
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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

I second the ZDL initiative a lot ~ for my part I only bought 3 computer in my life (and spent less than 500$ in total, (one 160$ netbook, one mini itx for 140$ and and use mac laptop)) and still use them all for one task or another. Mac laptop for music and dvd playing (but won't play avi :(, netbook as a cary around machine and note taking and remote access my main machine, and the itx as a main project machine and day to day desktop. 

(Ok ok I am just 31 years old, but I always end up being able to build computer from spare parts, and used or trashed computer). 

I am also planning on buying my 4th computer now - and I won't go for mac, or laptop because of the close minded architecture. I will go again with a mini itx board for few reason, one being that I can open the machine and change the parts easily, and it has a lot more possible horse power than a laptop in general and are also quite easy to cary around.  I use my mini itx for project and connect to the machine remotely trough my netbook, or trough other device that controle my project (for now sketches in processing controled by devices that send osc (nds)) 

So my suggestion is use what you have - tweak it for your needs and check the mini itx for their long lived architecture - i.e. you can replace them part by part if needed, instead of the 'replace your computer every 5 years' trends.



On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:53 AM, Ricardo G. Herdt <[hidden email]> wrote:
2010/7/7 James Harkins <[hidden email]>:
>
> On that note -- how hard would it be to remap ctrl to the Apple command key,
> and "enter" to be an alternate option key? The MBP keyboard is complete crap
> for Emacs, which would be my primary supercollider interface (actually it
> already is in OSX by way of Aquamacs). Without this remapping, the
> ergonomics would be disastrous.
>

on puredyne you can use xmodmap.

> Bernardo:
>
>> I wonder if in such a modern computer is still a big
>> difference in speed between Gnome and Xfce?
>
> Probably not, but I see a lot of clutter in recent Gnome screenshots. I'm
> finding the simplicity and cleanliness of xfce4 to be very pleasant, even
> compared to OSX and its boasting about a refined user experience.
>

Xfce and others are a bit more responsive. But Gnome can also be fast,
it depends on how your distro set it up by default (on debian, for
example, I find it faster than Ubuntu's default install).


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ddw_music ddw_music
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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

In reply to this post by Ricardo Gabriel Herdt
On 7/7/10 10:53 PM, Ricardo G. Herdt wrote:

> 2010/7/7 James Harkins<[hidden email]>:
>    
>> On that note -- how hard would it be to remap ctrl to the Apple command key,
>> and "enter" to be an alternate option key? The MBP keyboard is complete crap
>> for Emacs, which would be my primary supercollider interface (actually it
>> already is in OSX by way of Aquamacs). Without this remapping, the
>> ergonomics would be disastrous.
>>      
> on puredyne you can use xmodmap.
>    

I'm a little confused how to do this. I've read the man page but it
seems to be missing some basic information, like the keysym names for
modifiers commonly found on modern keyboards. Control and Lock are clear
enough. What about Alt or Command (in Apple speak -- the Windows start
key elsewhere).

I'd kind of like to use this on my netbook, where the bottom row looks
like this:

Ctrl    Fn    (Win start)    Alt <spc>    Alt    (context menu key)    Ctrl

And I'd like to make it look like this:

(Win start)    Fn    Alt    Ctrl <spc>    Ctrl    Alt    (context menu)

Could anyone give some hints? I'm extremely busy with a composition
project and don't have a spare hour or two to futz around with it.

Thanks!
James


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James Harkins /// dewdrop world
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"Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal." -- Whitman

blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
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more audio: http://soundcloud.com/dewdrop_world/tracks


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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

Hi James!

'xmodmap -pme' will list the modifier keys and the associated keysym
names. With 'xev' you can get more info about each key as you press
it, like keycode, keysym etc. Alt is Mod1, you have to check there how
the Command key is called.

So, here xmodmap tells me:

$ xmodmap -pme
xmodmap:  up to 4 keys per modifier, (keycodes in parentheses):

shift       Shift_L (0x32),  Shift_R (0x3e)
lock
control     Control_L (0x40),  Control_R (0x5c),  Control_R (0x6c),
Control_L (0xcc)
mod1        Alt_L (0x25),  Alt_L (0x42),  Meta_L (0x69),  Meta_L (0xcd)
mod2        Num_Lock (0x4d)
mod3
mod4        Super_L (0x85),  Super_R (0x86),  Super_L (0xce),  Hyper_L (0xcf)
mod5        Mode_switch (0xcb)

Lets say I want to swap the alt and control keys, but, on my keyboard,
I have no Meta_L. So, I'll use alt gr (ISO_Level3_Shift) instead. I
put this into my ~/.Xmodmap file:

remove control = Control_L Control_R
remove mod1 = Alt_L Meta_L
remove mod5 = ISO_Level3_Shift
keysym Control_L = Alt_L
keysym Control_R = Meta_L
keysym Alt_L = Control_L
keysym ISO_Level3_Shift = Control_R
add mod1 = Alt_L Meta_L
add control = Control_L Control_R

That's it, running xmodmap ~/.Xmodmap should change your layout. Note
that .Xmodmap (at least here on debian Squeeze) get's read on startup,
if you want to switch to the old layout back, simply rename this file
and restart X.

Hope that helps,

Ricardo

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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

Ricardo G. Herdt wrote:
> Hi James!
>
> 'xmodmap -pme' will list the modifier keys and the associated keysym
> names. With 'xev' you can get more info about each key as you press
> it, like keycode, keysym etc. Alt is Mod1, you have to check there how
> the Command key is called.
>  

Cool, thanks. I had an initial crack at it (the netbook example in my
email before).

remove control = Control_L Control_R
remove mod1 = Alt_L Alt_R Meta_L
remove mod4 = Super_L
keysym Control_L = Super_L
keysym Control_R = Menu
keysym Super_L = Alt_L
keysym Menu = Alt_R
keysym Alt_L = Control_L
keysym Alt_R = Control_R
add mod1 = Alt_L Alt_R Meta_L
add control = Control_L Control_R
add mod4 = Super_L
!! how would I 'add' Menu? I guess Super is a modifier key but Menu
isn't... hmm...

Is this right? It's quite likely I misunderstood.

Thanks again!
James

--
James Harkins /// dewdrop world
[hidden email]
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"Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal."  -- Whitman


Outer window is 0x2800001, inner window is 0x2800002

PropertyNotify event, serial 8, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x27 (WM_NAME), time 13742604, state PropertyNewValue

PropertyNotify event, serial 9, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x22 (WM_COMMAND), time 13742604, state PropertyNewValue

PropertyNotify event, serial 10, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x28 (WM_NORMAL_HINTS), time 13742604, state PropertyNewValue

CreateNotify event, serial 11, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    parent 0x2800001, window 0x2800002, (10,10), width 50, height 50
border_width 4, override NO

PropertyNotify event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x121 (WM_PROTOCOLS), time 13742604, state PropertyNewValue

MapNotify event, serial 15, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    event 0x2800001, window 0x2800002, override NO

PropertyNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x12f (_NET_WM_STATE), time 13742608, state PropertyNewValue

PropertyNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x191 (_WIN_STATE), time 13742608, state PropertyNewValue

PropertyNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x193 (_WIN_WORKSPACE), time 13742608, state PropertyNewValue

PropertyNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x129 (_NET_WM_DESKTOP), time 13742608, state PropertyNewValue

ConfigureNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    event 0x2800001, window 0x2800001, (0,0), width 178, height 178,
    border_width 0, above 0x180002d, override NO

ReparentNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    event 0x2800001, window 0x2800001, parent 0x1216a59,
    (4,22), override NO

ConfigureNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    event 0x2800001, window 0x2800001, (4,22), width 178, height 178,
    border_width 0, above 0x1216a68, override NO

ConfigureNotify event, serial 18, synthetic YES, window 0x2800001,
    event 0x2800001, window 0x2800001, (423,206), width 178, height 178,
    border_width 0, above 0x1216a59, override NO

MapNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    event 0x2800001, window 0x2800001, override NO

VisibilityNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    state VisibilityUnobscured

Expose event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    (0,0), width 178, height 10, count 3

Expose event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    (0,10), width 10, height 58, count 2

Expose event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    (68,10), width 110, height 58, count 1

Expose event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    (0,68), width 178, height 110, count 0

PropertyNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x143 (WM_STATE), time 13742621, state PropertyNewValue

PropertyNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x17c (_NET_WM_ALLOWED_ACTIONS), time 13742622, state PropertyNewValue

PropertyNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x12f (_NET_WM_STATE), time 13742622, state PropertyNewValue

PropertyNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x191 (_WIN_STATE), time 13742622, state PropertyNewValue

FocusIn event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    mode NotifyNormal, detail NotifyNonlinear

KeymapNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
    keys:  4294967235 0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  
           0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  

PropertyNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x126 (_NET_FRAME_EXTENTS), time 13742622, state PropertyNewValue

PropertyNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x12f (_NET_WM_STATE), time 13742622, state PropertyNewValue

PropertyNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x191 (_WIN_STATE), time 13742622, state PropertyNewValue

PropertyNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x12f (_NET_WM_STATE), time 13742627, state PropertyNewValue

PropertyNotify event, serial 18, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x191 (_WIN_STATE), time 13742628, state PropertyNewValue

PropertyNotify event, serial 30, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    atom 0x17f (_NET_WM_ICON_GEOMETRY), time 13742682, state PropertyNewValue

KeyPress event, serial 31, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    root 0xf9, subw 0x0, time 13748215, (346,6), root:(769,212),
    state 0x0, keycode 37 (keysym 0xffe3, Control_L), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyRelease event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    root 0xf9, subw 0x0, time 13748321, (346,6), root:(769,212),
    state 0x4, keycode 37 (keysym 0xffe3, Control_L), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyPress event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    root 0xf9, subw 0x0, time 13749367, (346,6), root:(769,212),
    state 0x0, keycode 133 (keysym 0xffeb, Super_L), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyRelease event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    root 0xf9, subw 0x0, time 13749482, (346,6), root:(769,212),
    state 0x40, keycode 133 (keysym 0xffeb, Super_L), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyPress event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    root 0xf9, subw 0x0, time 13750423, (346,6), root:(769,212),
    state 0x0, keycode 64 (keysym 0xffe9, Alt_L), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyRelease event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    root 0xf9, subw 0x0, time 13750524, (346,6), root:(769,212),
    state 0x8, keycode 64 (keysym 0xffe9, Alt_L), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyPress event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    root 0xf9, subw 0x0, time 13751449, (346,6), root:(769,212),
    state 0x0, keycode 108 (keysym 0xffea, Alt_R), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyRelease event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    root 0xf9, subw 0x0, time 13751540, (346,6), root:(769,212),
    state 0x8, keycode 108 (keysym 0xffea, Alt_R), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyPress event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    root 0xf9, subw 0x0, time 13752440, (346,6), root:(769,212),
    state 0x0, keycode 135 (keysym 0xff67, Menu), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyRelease event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    root 0xf9, subw 0x0, time 13752531, (346,6), root:(769,212),
    state 0x0, keycode 135 (keysym 0xff67, Menu), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyPress event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    root 0xf9, subw 0x0, time 13753481, (346,6), root:(769,212),
    state 0x0, keycode 105 (keysym 0xffe4, Control_R), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyRelease event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    root 0xf9, subw 0x0, time 13753582, (346,6), root:(769,212),
    state 0x4, keycode 105 (keysym 0xffe4, Control_R), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyPress event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    root 0xf9, subw 0x0, time 13757093, (346,6), root:(769,212),
    state 0x0, keycode 108 (keysym 0xffea, Alt_R), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

FocusOut event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001,
    mode NotifyGrab, detail NotifyAncestor

ClientMessage event, serial 34, synthetic YES, window 0x2800001,
    message_type 0x121 (WM_PROTOCOLS), format 32, message 0x11f (WM_DELETE_WINDOW)
xmodmap:  up to 4 keys per modifier, (keycodes in parentheses):

shift       Shift_L (0x32),  Shift_R (0x3e)
lock        Caps_Lock (0x42)
control     Control_L (0x25),  Control_R (0x69)
mod1        Alt_L (0x40),  Alt_R (0x6c),  Meta_L (0xcd)
mod2        Num_Lock (0x4d)
mod3      
mod4        Super_L (0x85),  Super_R (0x86),  Super_L (0xce),  Hyper_L (0xcf)
mod5        ISO_Level3_Shift (0x5c),  Mode_switch (0xcb)



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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

2010/7/14 James Harkins <[hidden email]>:

>
> !! how would I 'add' Menu? I guess Super is a modifier key but Menu isn't...
> hmm...
>
> Is this right? It's quite likely I misunderstood.
>
> Thanks again!
> James
>

Try using keycode to modify the Menu key:

keycode 135 = Meta_L
or
keycode 135 = Alt_R

Ricardo

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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

2010/7/14 Ricardo G. Herdt <[hidden email]>:

> 2010/7/14 James Harkins <[hidden email]>:
>
>>
>
> Try using keycode to modify the Menu key:
>
> keycode 135 = Meta_L
> or
> keycode 135 = Alt_R
>

Oh, and make sure you're using the default keymap before running
xmodmap (for example, name .Xmodmap to something else and restart X.
When you get what you want, rename it back to .Xmodmap)

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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

In reply to this post by Ricardo Gabriel Herdt
Thank you Ricardo for your help with this!

I'm perfectly gobsmacked -- it seems this xmodmap script worked on the first try. (Nothing ever works on the first try!)

remove control = Control_L Control_R
remove mod1 = Alt_L Alt_R Meta_L
keysym Control_L = Super_L
keysym Control_R = Menu
keysym Super_L = Alt_L
!keysym Menu = Alt_R
keycode 135 = Alt_R
keysym Alt_L = Control_L
keysym Alt_R = Control_R
add mod1 = Alt_L Alt_R Meta_L
add control = Control_L Control_R
add mod4 = Super_L

You basically wrote the script for me, so thanks again!
James

-- 
James Harkins /// dewdrop world
[hidden email]
http://www.dewdrop-world.net

"Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal."  -- Whitman

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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

Glad to hear it worked. You're welcome!

2010/7/18, James Harkins <[hidden email]>:

> Thank you Ricardo for your help with this!
>
> I'm perfectly gobsmacked -- it seems this xmodmap script worked on the
> first try. (Nothing /ever/ works on the first try!)
>
> remove control = Control_L Control_R
> remove mod1 = Alt_L Alt_R Meta_L
> keysym Control_L = Super_L
> keysym Control_R = Menu
> keysym Super_L = Alt_L
> !keysym Menu = Alt_R
> keycode 135 = Alt_R
> keysym Alt_L = Control_L
> keysym Alt_R = Control_R
> add mod1 = Alt_L Alt_R Meta_L
> add control = Control_L Control_R
> add mod4 = Super_L
>
> You basically wrote the script for me, so thanks again!
> James
>
> --
> James Harkins /// dewdrop world
> [hidden email]
> http://www.dewdrop-world.net
>

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Re: [puredyne] laptop recommendations?

In reply to this post by Kereoz

> You might want to take a look at those new lenovo Thinkpads, especially
> the X series.
>
> I have been using a thinkpad x60s with OpenBSD/PureDyne for a while now, and I'm very happy with it.
> It is very lightweight, hardware works great with opensource drivers, and it has good baery life.
> This one is an IBM though, but still it seems to what I heard that
> thinkpads remain highly reliable.
>
> Compared to my MBP (probably the same as you have, revision 1,1), also
> running OpenBSD/PureDyne, hardware works better and out of the box when it comes to have free
> software only (even though the mac is now old enough to have
> okay-working drivers). I think this is an important aspect to take into
> consideration if you don't want to mess around with -mm patches and so


i am wondering if anyone has any experience with Asus eee 1201HA
http://www.netbookreviews.net/asus/eee-pc-1201ha/
and how this would compare with a Thinkpad x61 in terms of compatibility
with PureDyne, but also performance.

I also noticed that the Asus eee 1201HA does not have firewire... is
there some way to add a firewire port to a machine that does not have
pcmcia ? i guess it is impossible

After some check in ebay for a second had x61 i noticed that the cost of
this would be almost the same as the asus 1201HA in the shop.

i guess the worst thing with the x61 is the screen resolution, 1024x768
is starting to get too small...

thanks

enrike


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