[puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems

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grant centauri-2 grant centauri-2
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[puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems

Hi all,

I should probably do this over at launchpad, but i'm still unfamiliar with that whole process.  Beginning to understand though.

I just grabbed the broth source with bzr, successfully built an image and then decided to try and use the chroot/usr/sbin/make-live-device.sh script to make a live USB.  Perhaps some of my issues are from not doing it in a puredyne environment, but I thought it should work. 

A number of issues which I would be willing to help fix, if pointed in the right direction:

1. i did not have parted on my build environment.  the script still did something, it would probably be good to check for that and stop the script first.

2. the grub install was a bit weird.  i ended up with a grub.cfg file that was blank, and even when filling it in with the information in /extra/grub2 I popped up into a grub shell rather than a boot environment.  I ended up manually installing grub to the first partition.

3. the grub.cfg included is not right.  there's already a bug report on this.  I had to change the vmlinuz1 and initrd1.img and the set root to {hd0,1}, i also had to remove the search --no-floppy line... there's probably a better fix for that.

I am willing to do the work but probably need some hints as to where to begin.

oh, and boot failed here, at least using qemu:

Begin: Running /scripts/init-bottom ... done.
/etc/default/local: 1: **L**
                                         : not found
init: mountall main process (1864) terminated with status 127

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Re: [puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems

Managed to get a successful boot after a manual install of Grub and changing the grub.cfg.  i think boot was failing because something happened during the first boot using qemu that corrupted things on the live-rw partition.  I made a new one and am now running inside Gazpacho from USB, semi-made with the make-live-device.sh

it seems a bit slower than i remember 9.11 being, but it may have to do with my hacky build.  otherwise looks nice!

On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 3:40 AM, grant centauri <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I should probably do this over at launchpad, but i'm still unfamiliar with that whole process.  Beginning to understand though.

I just grabbed the broth source with bzr, successfully built an image and then decided to try and use the chroot/usr/sbin/make-live-device.sh script to make a live USB.  Perhaps some of my issues are from not doing it in a puredyne environment, but I thought it should work. 

A number of issues which I would be willing to help fix, if pointed in the right direction:

1. i did not have parted on my build environment.  the script still did something, it would probably be good to check for that and stop the script first.

2. the grub install was a bit weird.  i ended up with a grub.cfg file that was blank, and even when filling it in with the information in /extra/grub2 I popped up into a grub shell rather than a boot environment.  I ended up manually installing grub to the first partition.

3. the grub.cfg included is not right.  there's already a bug report on this.  I had to change the vmlinuz1 and initrd1.img and the set root to {hd0,1}, i also had to remove the search --no-floppy line... there's probably a better fix for that.

I am willing to do the work but probably need some hints as to where to begin.

oh, and boot failed here, at least using qemu:

Begin: Running /scripts/init-bottom ... done.
/etc/default/local: 1: **L**
                                         : not found
init: mountall main process (1864) terminated with status 127


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Re: [puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems

quick note:

is it possible to include qsynth/fluidsynth?

or is there already a soundfont host on the system?

its GM soundfont is kind of big, but i noticed one
named TimGM6mb that is quite small on the system already.
Is that what timidity uses, and if so, can timidity host
soundfonts?  I've been using Qsynth for a while and have
grown to like it, but perhaps its time to learn timidity.


On 5/20/11, grant centauri <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Managed to get a successful boot after a manual install of Grub and
> changing
> the grub.cfg.  i think boot was failing because something happened during
> the first boot using qemu that corrupted things on the live-rw partition.
> I
> made a new one and am now running inside Gazpacho from USB, semi-made with
> the make-live-device.sh
>
> it seems a bit slower than i remember 9.11 being, but it may have to do
> with
> my hacky build.  otherwise looks nice!
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 3:40 AM, grant centauri
> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I should probably do this over at launchpad, but i'm still unfamiliar
>> with
>> that whole process.  Beginning to understand though.
>>
>> I just grabbed the broth source with bzr, successfully built an image and
>> then decided to try and use the chroot/usr/sbin/make-live-device.sh
>> script
>> to make a live USB.  Perhaps some of my issues are from not doing it in a
>> puredyne environment, but I thought it should work.
>>
>> A number of issues which I would be willing to help fix, if pointed in
>> the
>> right direction:
>>
>> 1. i did not have parted on my build environment.  the script still did
>> something, it would probably be good to check for that and stop the
>> script
>> first.
>>
>> 2. the grub install was a bit weird.  i ended up with a grub.cfg file
>> that
>> was blank, and even when filling it in with the information in
>> /extra/grub2
>> I popped up into a grub shell rather than a boot environment.  I ended up
>> manually installing grub to the first partition.
>>
>> 3. the grub.cfg included is not right.  there's already a bug report on
>> this.  I had to change the vmlinuz1 and initrd1.img and the set root to
>> {hd0,1}, i also had to remove the search --no-floppy line... there's
>> probably a better fix for that.
>>
>> I am willing to do the work but probably need some hints as to where to
>> begin.
>>
>> oh, and boot failed here, at least using qemu:
>>
>> Begin: Running /scripts/init-bottom ... done.
>> /etc/default/local: 1: **L**
>>                                          : not found
>> init: mountall main process (1864) terminated with status 127
>>
>
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[puredyne] fixing USB key generator (was Re: broth build to live-usb problems)

In reply to this post by grant centauri-2
grant centauri said :

> Hi all,
>
> I should probably do this over at launchpad, but i'm still unfamiliar with
> that whole process.  Beginning to understand though.
>
> I just grabbed the broth source with bzr, successfully built an image and
> then decided to try and use the chroot/usr/sbin/make-live-device.sh script
> to make a live USB.  Perhaps some of my issues are from not doing it in a
> puredyne environment, but I thought it should work.
>
> A number of issues which I would be willing to help fix, if pointed in the
> right direction:
>
> 1. i did not have parted on my build environment.  the script still did
> something, it would probably be good to check for that and stop the script
> first.

Yes, the script should check that all the necessary tools are installed
before running. Just testing for file existence should be enough, but
... see below.

 
> 2. the grub install was a bit weird.  i ended up with a grub.cfg file that
> was blank, and even when filling it in with the information in /extra/grub2
> I popped up into a grub shell rather than a boot environment.  I ended up
> manually installing grub to the first partition.
>
> 3. the grub.cfg included is not right.  there's already a bug report on
> this.  I had to change the vmlinuz1 and initrd1.img and the set root to
> {hd0,1}, i also had to remove the search --no-floppy line... there's
> probably a better fix for that.

Overall, it's a bit tricky to focus on these issues as they are linked
to other more important development that need to be investigated first
so we do not waste time fixing bugs that might become irrelevant.

I contributed the original shell script to work with syslinux, and AFAIC
remember then karsten ported it to work with GRUB, then Enrike started
to work on a Python version that would work both as CLI + GUI.
Other dev contributes bits and bytes at every step of course. It's all
in the bzr repos.

Now, I am not sure what is the state of the different directions, but I
have the impression that they are all incomplete. The ideal steps now
would be:

1. Figure out once and for all if Puredyne can boot via USB on a mactel.
  There has been lots of very interesting progress on this reported on
the bug tracker and last year during an Helsinki sprint, I managed to
get quite close (also explained in the bug report). But I don't own a
Mac, so I could not do anything after the sprint.

2. If 1. is successful then we need to test if the mactel key can still
boot on a regular PC as well, or what kind of tricks might be possible
to have a unique boot system for both mac and pc.

3. Write the software that can generate the right partition table,
bootloader and whatnot for the universal key, or provide an option to
generate either a mac one or a regular pc key. The final software should
preferably be merged with Enrike's code so we can provide a nice CLI +
GUI app.

Prior to that, it is important to check the status of unetbootin to
avoid duplicate work, I do not know for example if all the steps
required above could be done within their framework, and if that's the
case it would be better to drop our script and contribute to their
software with a Puredyne specific profile or something like that.


> I am willing to do the work but probably need some hints as to where to
> begin.

What do you think of the steps above?
I can give you access to the code repos (writing access) if you want to
start hacking.



a.
--
http://su.kuri.mu

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Re: [puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems

In reply to this post by grant centauri
grant centauri said :

> quick note:
>
> is it possible to include qsynth/fluidsynth?
>
> or is there already a soundfont host on the system?
>
> its GM soundfont is kind of big, but i noticed one
> named TimGM6mb that is quite small on the system already.
> Is that what timidity uses, and if so, can timidity host
> soundfonts?  I've been using Qsynth for a while and have
> grown to like it, but perhaps its time to learn timidity.

Timidity is provided as the default, small basic MIDI player. It's good
enough to preview and play mid files and we provide just a very basic
set of sounds. Maybe we could add more collections on the DVD/USB.

I do not use fluidsynth, but I think it's basically the same but with
more control over the sound samples and better integration with other
music apps?

(I thought it was already in Puredyne)

 

>
> On 5/20/11, grant centauri <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Managed to get a successful boot after a manual install of Grub and
> > changing
> > the grub.cfg.  i think boot was failing because something happened during
> > the first boot using qemu that corrupted things on the live-rw partition.
> > I
> > made a new one and am now running inside Gazpacho from USB, semi-made with
> > the make-live-device.sh
> >
> > it seems a bit slower than i remember 9.11 being, but it may have to do
> > with
> > my hacky build.  otherwise looks nice!
> >
> > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 3:40 AM, grant centauri
> > <[hidden email]>wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I should probably do this over at launchpad, but i'm still unfamiliar
> >> with
> >> that whole process.  Beginning to understand though.
> >>
> >> I just grabbed the broth source with bzr, successfully built an image and
> >> then decided to try and use the chroot/usr/sbin/make-live-device.sh
> >> script
> >> to make a live USB.  Perhaps some of my issues are from not doing it in a
> >> puredyne environment, but I thought it should work.
> >>
> >> A number of issues which I would be willing to help fix, if pointed in
> >> the
> >> right direction:
> >>
> >> 1. i did not have parted on my build environment.  the script still did
> >> something, it would probably be good to check for that and stop the
> >> script
> >> first.
> >>
> >> 2. the grub install was a bit weird.  i ended up with a grub.cfg file
> >> that
> >> was blank, and even when filling it in with the information in
> >> /extra/grub2
> >> I popped up into a grub shell rather than a boot environment.  I ended up
> >> manually installing grub to the first partition.
> >>
> >> 3. the grub.cfg included is not right.  there's already a bug report on
> >> this.  I had to change the vmlinuz1 and initrd1.img and the set root to
> >> {hd0,1}, i also had to remove the search --no-floppy line... there's
> >> probably a better fix for that.
> >>
> >> I am willing to do the work but probably need some hints as to where to
> >> begin.
> >>
> >> oh, and boot failed here, at least using qemu:
> >>
> >> Begin: Running /scripts/init-bottom ... done.
> >> /etc/default/local: 1: **L**
> >>                                          : not found
> >> init: mountall main process (1864) terminated with status 127
> >>
> >
> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne


a.
--
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Re: [puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems

In reply to this post by grant centauri
grant centauri said :
> Managed to get a successful boot after a manual install of Grub and changing
> the grub.cfg.  i think boot was failing because something happened during
> the first boot using qemu that corrupted things on the live-rw partition.  I
> made a new one and am now running inside Gazpacho from USB, semi-made with
> the make-live-device.sh
>
> it seems a bit slower than i remember 9.11 being, but it may have to do with
> my hacky build.  otherwise looks nice!

slower to boot or respond, or load app?

BTW, I test isos with virtualbox-ose, it works nicely.


>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 3:40 AM, grant centauri <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I should probably do this over at launchpad, but i'm still unfamiliar with
> > that whole process.  Beginning to understand though.
> >
> > I just grabbed the broth source with bzr, successfully built an image and
> > then decided to try and use the chroot/usr/sbin/make-live-device.sh script
> > to make a live USB.  Perhaps some of my issues are from not doing it in a
> > puredyne environment, but I thought it should work.
> >
> > A number of issues which I would be willing to help fix, if pointed in the
> > right direction:
> >
> > 1. i did not have parted on my build environment.  the script still did
> > something, it would probably be good to check for that and stop the script
> > first.
> >
> > 2. the grub install was a bit weird.  i ended up with a grub.cfg file that
> > was blank, and even when filling it in with the information in /extra/grub2
> > I popped up into a grub shell rather than a boot environment.  I ended up
> > manually installing grub to the first partition.
> >
> > 3. the grub.cfg included is not right.  there's already a bug report on
> > this.  I had to change the vmlinuz1 and initrd1.img and the set root to
> > {hd0,1}, i also had to remove the search --no-floppy line... there's
> > probably a better fix for that.
> >
> > I am willing to do the work but probably need some hints as to where to
> > begin.
> >
> > oh, and boot failed here, at least using qemu:
> >
> > Begin: Running /scripts/init-bottom ... done.
> > /etc/default/local: 1: **L**
> >                                          : not found
> > init: mountall main process (1864) terminated with status 127
> >

> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne



a.
--
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Re: [puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems



slower to boot or respond, or load app?

load apps.  after playing a bit it was fine.  just the initial menu loading seemed slow, but there's a lot of stuff there.  nothing out of the ordinary, its actually been a while since i've run puredyne live USB, i've been using puppy which loads everything to ram, so its snappy.
 
BTW, I test isos with virtualbox-ose, it works nicely.


i'll check it out.  debian-live suggested qemu/kvm so i've been using that, also trying to boot directly from the USB to test it rather than reboot.  that may have issues.

fluidsynth is primarily for hosting soundfonts and has Qsynth as a nice GUI.  apparently timidity does the same thing, so either is fine.  I've found some pretty decent sample sets of acoustic instruments that are nice to use in conjunction with rosegarden or some other sequencer for more traditional composition.  Its one of the areas I'm interested in, combined with lilypond one could have a fairly high quality composition studio.  Maybe the subject for a branch? 

I think fluidsynth/qsynth is pretty small so it might be worth including if its not a hassle.  I think it was on the original puredyne I used, back in the green days.  not a major issue though


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Re: [puredyne] fixing USB key generator (was Re: broth build to live-usb problems)

In reply to this post by Aymeric Mansoux

Overall, it's a bit tricky to focus on these issues as they are linked
to other more important development that need to be investigated first
so we do not waste time fixing bugs that might become irrelevant.

I totally understand.  I've been wrestling with the Mactel USB stuff and realizing that I shouldn't put in a ton of work to live-USB development before solving this issue one way or another.  And that there's a larger community to work for too ;)

Now, I am not sure what is the state of the different directions, but I
have the impression that they are all incomplete. The ideal steps now
would be:

1. Figure out once and for all if Puredyne can boot via USB on a mactel.
 There has been lots of very interesting progress on this reported on
the bug tracker and last year during an Helsinki sprint, I managed to
get quite close (also explained in the bug report). But I don't own a
Mac, so I could not do anything after the sprint.

well i have a roommate with a Macbook Pro and am spending the next week and a half at a house with an iMac (parents).  I've read the bug reports, I tried with the info I got from there and seemed to get about as far as you, though there was no Linux partition on it to mess with the initramfs... still hung there.  I'm also in contact with c.cobb who posted on the bug report as well, he is back at it too, in a more general fashion.  I am guessing it is possible, but these MacTels put a bunch of weird barriers in the way that I have little experience with.

2. If 1. is successful then we need to test if the mactel key can still
boot on a regular PC as well, or what kind of tricks might be possible
to have a unique boot system for both mac and pc.

3. Write the software that can generate the right partition table,
bootloader and whatnot for the universal key, or provide an option to
generate either a mac one or a regular pc key. The final software should
preferably be merged with Enrike's code so we can provide a nice CLI +
GUI app.

Prior to that, it is important to check the status of unetbootin to
avoid duplicate work, I do not know for example if all the steps
required above could be done within their framework, and if that's the
case it would be better to drop our script and contribute to their
software with a Puredyne specific profile or something like that.

personally, i like make-live-device.sh ! its what showed me what is actually going on in the process of making a live USB, and allowed me to problem solve when it inevitably goes wrong with one of the many tools that are out there.  However, it is certainly worth checking into.
 
> I am willing to do the work but probably need some hints as to where to
> begin.

What do you think of the steps above?
I can give you access to the code repos (writing access) if you want to
start hacking.


they make sense to me, this is my first real foray into the world of contributing to a project, but after running through the debian-live manual myself and learning a bit about git, i feel like i can at least give it a shot.  no better way to learn than by doing.  the Mactel issue is proving to be a difficult one, but with c.cobb and others in the community perhaps it can be solved.
 


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Re: [puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems

In reply to this post by grant centauri
grant centauri said :
> >
> > slower to boot or respond, or load app?
> >
>
> load apps.  after playing a bit it was fine.  just the initial menu loading
> seemed slow, but there's a lot of stuff there.  nothing out of the ordinary,
> its actually been a while since i've run puredyne live USB, i've been using
> puppy which loads everything to ram, so its snappy.

You can do the same with Puredyne but it's off by default because it
requires quite some RAM for a full CD/DVD or key.

Maybe we should add a boot entry for it?

 

> > BTW, I test isos with virtualbox-ose, it works nicely.
> >
> >
> i'll check it out.  debian-live suggested qemu/kvm so i've been using that,
> also trying to boot directly from the USB to test it rather than reboot.
> that may have issues.
>
> fluidsynth is primarily for hosting soundfonts and has Qsynth as a nice
> GUI.  apparently timidity does the same thing, so either is fine.  I've
> found some pretty decent sample sets of acoustic instruments that are nice
> to use in conjunction with rosegarden or some other sequencer for more
> traditional composition.  Its one of the areas I'm interested in, combined
> with lilypond one could have a fairly high quality composition studio.
> Maybe the subject for a branch?

nah, we should just provide it because ...

 
> I think fluidsynth/qsynth is pretty small so it might be worth including if
> its not a hassle.  I think it was on the original puredyne I used, back in
> the green days.  not a major issue though

... indeed it was already there.

See next mail.


> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne



a.
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Re: [puredyne] fixing USB key generator (was Re: broth build to live-usb problems)

In reply to this post by grant centauri
grant centauri said :
> well i have a roommate with a Macbook Pro and am spending the next week and
> a half at a house with an iMac (parents).  I've read the bug reports, I
> tried with the info I got from there and seemed to get about as far as you,
> though there was no Linux partition on it to mess with the initramfs...
> still hung there.  I'm also in contact with c.cobb who posted on the bug
> report as well, he is back at it too, in a more general fashion.  I am
> guessing it is possible, but these MacTels put a bunch of weird barriers in
> the way that I have little experience with.

Well, keep us posted on the progress!

 

> 2. If 1. is successful then we need to test if the mactel key can still
> > boot on a regular PC as well, or what kind of tricks might be possible
> > to have a unique boot system for both mac and pc.
> >
> > 3. Write the software that can generate the right partition table,
> > bootloader and whatnot for the universal key, or provide an option to
> > generate either a mac one or a regular pc key. The final software should
> > preferably be merged with Enrike's code so we can provide a nice CLI +
> > GUI app.
> >
> > Prior to that, it is important to check the status of unetbootin to
> > avoid duplicate work, I do not know for example if all the steps
> > required above could be done within their framework, and if that's the
> > case it would be better to drop our script and contribute to their
> > software with a Puredyne specific profile or something like that.
> >
>
> personally, i like make-live-device.sh ! its what showed me what is actually
> going on in the process of making a live USB, and allowed me to problem
> solve when it inevitably goes wrong with one of the many tools that are out
> there.  However, it is certainly worth checking into.

Well, TBH, I think that our needs are so specific that I doubt their
system allows for such fine tuning, but someone (maybe you if you're
already digging in the boot stuff), should check their stuff to be sure
we're not going to reinvent the wheel.


> > > I am willing to do the work but probably need some hints as to where to
> > > begin.
> >
> > What do you think of the steps above?
> > I can give you access to the code repos (writing access) if you want to
> > start hacking.
> >
> >
> they make sense to me, this is my first real foray into the world of
> contributing to a project, but after running through the debian-live manual
> myself and learning a bit about git, i feel like i can at least give it a
> shot.  no better way to learn than by doing.  the Mactel issue is proving to
> be a difficult one, but with c.cobb and others in the community perhaps it
> can be solved.

send a request to join the puredyne-team on launchpad and I'll add you,
then you can start commit stuff to the bzr repos, including the one from
broth, so you can add fluidsynth and co to the DVD profiles :)


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Re: [puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems

In reply to this post by Aymeric Mansoux
how much ram do you think it will need?
load everything to ram is great, a lot of people has 4gb or more, i used everytime with slax.
a boot entry is a nice idea!



On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 7:34 PM, Aymeric Mansoux <[hidden email]> wrote:
grant centauri said :
> >
> > slower to boot or respond, or load app?
> >
>
> load apps.  after playing a bit it was fine.  just the initial menu loading
> seemed slow, but there's a lot of stuff there.  nothing out of the ordinary,
> its actually been a while since i've run puredyne live USB, i've been using
> puppy which loads everything to ram, so its snappy.

You can do the same with Puredyne but it's off by default because it
requires quite some RAM for a full CD/DVD or key.

Maybe we should add a boot entry for it?



> > BTW, I test isos with virtualbox-ose, it works nicely.
> >
> >
> i'll check it out.  debian-live suggested qemu/kvm so i've been using that,
> also trying to boot directly from the USB to test it rather than reboot.
> that may have issues.
>
> fluidsynth is primarily for hosting soundfonts and has Qsynth as a nice
> GUI.  apparently timidity does the same thing, so either is fine.  I've
> found some pretty decent sample sets of acoustic instruments that are nice
> to use in conjunction with rosegarden or some other sequencer for more
> traditional composition.  Its one of the areas I'm interested in, combined
> with lilypond one could have a fairly high quality composition studio.
> Maybe the subject for a branch?

nah, we should just provide it because ...


> I think fluidsynth/qsynth is pretty small so it might be worth including if
> its not a hassle.  I think it was on the original puredyne I used, back in
> the green days.  not a major issue though

... indeed it was already there.

See next mail.


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Re: [puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems

if adding the boot option is easy, we can certainly test it out on capable machines.  Do you think having the system loaded into RAM will negatively affect audio/visual performance?

One idea is this:  if it is possible, provide an interface so the user can select certain parts of the system to load into RAM at boot, somewhat like a session manager.  Its doubtful everything needs to be loaded for most people.  Is this even doable?  I've only just started reading about loading system components to RAM.

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Igor Medeiros <[hidden email]> wrote:
how much ram do you think it will need?
load everything to ram is great, a lot of people has 4gb or more, i used everytime with slax.
a boot entry is a nice idea!



On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 7:34 PM, Aymeric Mansoux <[hidden email]> wrote:
grant centauri said :
> >
> > slower to boot or respond, or load app?
> >
>
> load apps.  after playing a bit it was fine.  just the initial menu loading
> seemed slow, but there's a lot of stuff there.  nothing out of the ordinary,
> its actually been a while since i've run puredyne live USB, i've been using
> puppy which loads everything to ram, so its snappy.

You can do the same with Puredyne but it's off by default because it
requires quite some RAM for a full CD/DVD or key.

Maybe we should add a boot entry for it?



> > BTW, I test isos with virtualbox-ose, it works nicely.
> >
> >
> i'll check it out.  debian-live suggested qemu/kvm so i've been using that,
> also trying to boot directly from the USB to test it rather than reboot.
> that may have issues.
>
> fluidsynth is primarily for hosting soundfonts and has Qsynth as a nice
> GUI.  apparently timidity does the same thing, so either is fine.  I've
> found some pretty decent sample sets of acoustic instruments that are nice
> to use in conjunction with rosegarden or some other sequencer for more
> traditional composition.  Its one of the areas I'm interested in, combined
> with lilypond one could have a fairly high quality composition studio.
> Maybe the subject for a branch?

nah, we should just provide it because ...


> I think fluidsynth/qsynth is pretty small so it might be worth including if
> its not a hassle.  I think it was on the original puredyne I used, back in
> the green days.  not a major issue though

... indeed it was already there.

See next mail.


---
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irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne


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Re: [puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems

grant centauri said :
> if adding the boot option is easy, we can certainly test it out on capable
> machines.  Do you think having the system loaded into RAM will negatively
> affect audio/visual performance?

Performance won't be affected as long as you have enough RAM left to do
whatever your software needs to do. If not the system will start using
the swap and be sluggish, or if no swap, it will start killing some
processes.

You can already test it by editing the boot entry and pass the option
"toram", then you'll get the whole compressed system loaded into the RAM
before it gets mounted.

 
> One idea is this:  if it is possible, provide an interface so the user can
> select certain parts of the system to load into RAM at boot, somewhat like a
> session manager.  Its doubtful everything needs to be loaded for most
> people.  Is this even doable?  I've only just started reading about loading
> system components to RAM.

I doubt you can with live-initramfs, but maybe there is something to be
investigated in the neighborhood of /etc/live.conf. You can create extra
compressed modules to put in /live/ and ask the system to mount them. So
you could break down your OS in a base live system and extra modules.
AFAICT there is no way to tell it that you want the modules loaded into
RAM though, you would have to add this feature.

a.


 

> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Igor Medeiros <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > how much ram do you think it will need?
> > load everything to ram is great, a lot of people has 4gb or more, i used
> > everytime with slax.
> > a boot entry is a nice idea!
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 7:34 PM, Aymeric Mansoux <[hidden email]>wrote:
> >
> >> grant centauri said :
> >> > >
> >> > > slower to boot or respond, or load app?
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > load apps.  after playing a bit it was fine.  just the initial menu
> >> loading
> >> > seemed slow, but there's a lot of stuff there.  nothing out of the
> >> ordinary,
> >> > its actually been a while since i've run puredyne live USB, i've been
> >> using
> >> > puppy which loads everything to ram, so its snappy.
> >>
> >> You can do the same with Puredyne but it's off by default because it
> >> requires quite some RAM for a full CD/DVD or key.
> >>
> >> Maybe we should add a boot entry for it?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > > BTW, I test isos with virtualbox-ose, it works nicely.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > i'll check it out.  debian-live suggested qemu/kvm so i've been using
> >> that,
> >> > also trying to boot directly from the USB to test it rather than reboot.
> >> > that may have issues.
> >> >
> >> > fluidsynth is primarily for hosting soundfonts and has Qsynth as a nice
> >> > GUI.  apparently timidity does the same thing, so either is fine.  I've
> >> > found some pretty decent sample sets of acoustic instruments that are
> >> nice
> >> > to use in conjunction with rosegarden or some other sequencer for more
> >> > traditional composition.  Its one of the areas I'm interested in,
> >> combined
> >> > with lilypond one could have a fairly high quality composition studio.
> >> > Maybe the subject for a branch?
> >>
> >> nah, we should just provide it because ...
> >>
> >>
> >> > I think fluidsynth/qsynth is pretty small so it might be worth including
> >> if
> >> > its not a hassle.  I think it was on the original puredyne I used, back
> >> in
> >> > the green days.  not a major issue though
> >>
> >> ... indeed it was already there.
> >>
> >> See next mail.
> >>
> >>
> >> > ---
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> >> > irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> a.
> >> --
> >> http://su.kuri.mu
> >>
> >> ---
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> >> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---
> > [hidden email]
> > http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> > irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
> >

> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne



a.
--
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Re: [puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems


You can already test it by editing the boot entry and pass the option
"toram", then you'll get the whole compressed system loaded into the RAM
before it gets mounted.

i'll have to test that out.  is this a feature of initramfs?  would a standard debian live system be able to do the same with a simple boot option?

 
> One idea is this:  if it is possible, provide an interface so the user can
> select certain parts of the system to load into RAM at boot, somewhat like a
> session manager.  Its doubtful everything needs to be loaded for most
> people.  Is this even doable?  I've only just started reading about loading
> system components to RAM.

I doubt you can with live-initramfs, but maybe there is something to be
investigated in the neighborhood of /etc/live.conf. You can create extra
compressed modules to put in /live/ and ask the system to mount them. So
you could break down your OS in a base live system and extra modules.
AFAICT there is no way to tell it that you want the modules loaded into
RAM though, you would have to add this feature.

well, it was just a thought.  perhaps somewhere in the future, though for people with newer machines and excess ram, it won't make much of a difference.  probably easier for someone to just remaster a puredyne-live CD with the software they want, make it smaller, and load all that to ram.

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Re: [puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems

grant centauri said :
> > You can already test it by editing the boot entry and pass the option
> > "toram", then you'll get the whole compressed system loaded into the RAM
> > before it gets mounted.
> >
>
> i'll have to test that out.  is this a feature of initramfs?  would a
> standard debian live system be able to do the same with a simple boot
> option?

yes and yes.

> > > One idea is this:  if it is possible, provide an interface so the user
> > can
> > > select certain parts of the system to load into RAM at boot, somewhat
> > like a
> > > session manager.  Its doubtful everything needs to be loaded for most
> > > people.  Is this even doable?  I've only just started reading about
> > loading
> > > system components to RAM.
> >
> > I doubt you can with live-initramfs, but maybe there is something to be
> > investigated in the neighborhood of /etc/live.conf. You can create extra
> > compressed modules to put in /live/ and ask the system to mount them. So
> > you could break down your OS in a base live system and extra modules.
> > AFAICT there is no way to tell it that you want the modules loaded into
> > RAM though, you would have to add this feature.
> >
>
> well, it was just a thought.  perhaps somewhere in the future, though for
> people with newer machines and excess ram, it won't make much of a
> difference.  probably easier for someone to just remaster a puredyne-live CD
> with the software they want, make it smaller, and load all that to ram.

There is also a Django based web builder that some people started for
Debian Live, I assume it could tweaked to work so that people could
generate a customized Puredyne based on several components to choose
from. But would it be really worth it?

The remix stuff is a bit more handy though, I had started something like
that in make-live-blabla... you could make a new USB key based on the
current Puredyne running, it would not take into account your local
changes, but that's trivial to add.


a.
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Re: [puredyne] broth build to live-usb problems


There is also a Django based web builder that some people started for
Debian Live, I assume it could tweaked to work so that people could
generate a customized Puredyne based on several components to choose
from. But would it be really worth it?

i guess probably not.  i'm thinking mainly of how to make a small and very specific live system designed to be either a workspace for a particular workflow (using MIDI, rosegarden, lilypond for composition for example... or to teach some kind of audio technique).  Also to be able to run efficiently on older systems.  However, now that I think of it, using some kind of session manager would probably make more sense, and then you have a larger system for flexibility.  i just find out about possibilities and then get ideas that aren't always really worth it.
 
The remix stuff is a bit more handy though, I had started something like
that in make-live-blabla... you could make a new USB key based on the
current Puredyne running, it would not take into account your local
changes, but that's trivial to add.

a friend of mine is looking into the Refracta scripts which seem to make snapshots of running systems and then generate an iso for a new live system.  i don't know much about it, but will probably be learning something tomorrow.  i don't know if it would apply to Puredyne specifically... anyways.  more important things to focus on im sure.

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