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[puredyne] Ubuntu Studio will use XFCE for 11.10 - collaboration?

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ailo ailo
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[puredyne] Ubuntu Studio will use XFCE for 11.10 - collaboration?

The team developing Ubuntu Studio has just decided to use XFCE for their
next release - Ubuntu Studio 11.10 - now that Gnome2 has been replaced
by Unity on Ubuntu as the default desktop system, and Gnome2 will be
later replaced by Gnome3.

There is also a strong desire to get a preempt configured kernel into
the main repo for that release, called linux-lowlatency. We've been
testing it during the development of 11.04 Natty, but it did
unfortunately not make it into the main repo this time.
The 2.6.39 kernel, as you may know, will support the use of rtirq-init
script to raise priority for audio devices. For Ubuntu Natty, the kernel
used is now 2.6.38.
Reliability with low latencies across many systems may need to be
determined, but it seems to do ok.

Also, Ubuntu Studio would like to be using a live image.

I'm thinking perhaps there are areas in Puredyne development, that could
be collaborated on between these two distros, thus making the effort
less for Puredyne releases?

If someone is interested in getting involved, just subscribe to the
Ubuntu Studio devel mail list, or hang out at freenode, channel
#ubuntustudio-devel and talk with ScottL, the team leader for Ubuntu
Studio. Real name Scott Lavender.

Cheers.

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Aymeric Mansoux Aymeric Mansoux
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Re: [puredyne] Ubuntu Studio will use XFCE for 11.10 - collaboration?

Hi Ailo,

Thanks for contacting us and apologies for the late reply.

ailo said :

> The team developing Ubuntu Studio has just decided to use XFCE for their
> next release - Ubuntu Studio 11.10 - now that Gnome2 has been replaced
> by Unity on Ubuntu as the default desktop system, and Gnome2 will be
> later replaced by Gnome3.
>
> There is also a strong desire to get a preempt configured kernel into
> the main repo for that release, called linux-lowlatency. We've been
> testing it during the development of 11.04 Natty, but it did
> unfortunately not make it into the main repo this time.
> The 2.6.39 kernel, as you may know, will support the use of rtirq-init
> script to raise priority for audio devices. For Ubuntu Natty, the kernel
> used is now 2.6.38.
> Reliability with low latencies across many systems may need to be
> determined, but it seems to do ok.

Is there a PPA to test these kernels?


> Also, Ubuntu Studio would like to be using a live image.
>
> I'm thinking perhaps there are areas in Puredyne development, that could
> be collaborated on between these two distros, thus making the effort
> less for Puredyne releases?

Well, to be painfully honest, if you switch to XFCE and provide a live
image then there will be some overlap with our project. It's not
necessary a bad thing as long as we both know and understand the
expectations of our respective communities.

The scope of the project is to provide tools for media artists, designers
and musicians, as well as a discussion place for people to talk about
their practice, tips and tricks as practitioners using and/or writing
free software. In that sense Puredyne also acts as a hub for art/tech
discussions amongst us.

The current technical focus and direction of Puredyne is to provide a
fully functional live persistent distro (USB/CD/DVD/CF/HD/SSD) that can
optionally be installed with the Ubiquity installer. By functional we
mean that Puredyne can be used to setup art/sound/media installations,
to populate temporary or permanent studios and labs, workshop machines,
and of course be a reliable environment for real-time av processing.

We aim to support relatively old hardware as our benchmark machine has
always been a Pentium III 800Mhz with 384Mb of RAM, that's why we
provide a light environment with no effects, bells and whistles. We
believe that your CPU/GPU should be used plainly for the audio/video
software you run. Of course users are free to install more eye candy on
their own.

Unlike what some people have been writing, Puredyne is not based on
Xubuntu. We just use the standard Ubuntu repos and a few PPAs and then
build the distro adding software one at a time to control bloat and
avoid some of Canonical specific additions to Debian.

It would be nice to know what is the current status and roadmap of
Ubuntu Studio as well, so we could see if there are any overlap.


a.
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rooss rooss
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Re: [puredyne] Ubuntu Studio will use XFCE for 11.10 - collaboration?

On 05/23/2011 12:15 AM, Aymeric Mansoux wrote:
>
> Unlike what some people have been writing, Puredyne is not based on
> Xubuntu. We just use the standard Ubuntu repos and a few PPAs and then
> build the distro adding software one at a time to control bloat and
> avoid some of Canonical specific additions to Debian.
Which Canonical additions are you talking about specifically?

Regards,

\r
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ailo ailo
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Re: [puredyne] Ubuntu Studio will use XFCE for 11.10 - collaboration?

In reply to this post by Aymeric Mansoux
On 05/23/2011 12:15 AM, Aymeric Mansoux wrote:
>> The 2.6.39 kernel, as you may know, will support the use of rtirq-init
>> script to raise priority for audio devices. For Ubuntu Natty, the kernel
>> used is now 2.6.38.
>> Reliability with low latencies across many systems may need to be
>> determined, but it seems to do ok.
>
> Is there a PPA to test these kernels?
>

Here is the PPA we have been using for testing linux-lowlatency on Natty.

ppa:abogani/ppa

This PPA may disappear soon, but there will be a PPA with a
linux-lowlatency kernel for 11.10 within a few weeks that supports
forced irq-threading. (>2.6.38)
The kernel is a standard Ubuntu kernel, with a few different configs.

I'm hoping linux-lowlatency will end up in the main repo by the time
11.10 is released.

> It would be nice to know what is the current status and roadmap of
> Ubuntu Studio as well, so we could see if there are any overlap.
>

I believe at this point there is not much of an overlap. Ubuntu Studio
will likely be based on Xubuntu. Not many people are working on that,
and I suppose there is a very good chance there will be quite a lot of
bloat.
Also, the future for Ubuntu Studio and the use of XFCE is not certain.
Not even for the release of 11.10.
This could of course change with time.

However, there is an ambition to create a live image for Ubuntu Studio.
That task has not been properly started yet to my knowledge and is not
planned for any specific release. Don't know what would be needed in
order to adopt that to Ubuntu Studio, but in my view Puredyne's way of
making a live image could just as well be the basis for how it's done
for Ubuntu Studio.

So, on those two things - the kernel, and the live image - I can see a
reason for cooperation.

On the kernel bit it might be interesting to have more people testing it
to find out how well it performs.
We're going to write a script to compare -lowlatency with -generic.
-generic has been performing quite well, but from doing only a few
tests, -generic seems to work well on only some hardware, while
-lowlatency is comparable or better than an -rt kernel.
The tests have been very simple, so there may be something we are missing.

I suppose that's it..

>
> a.
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Bernardo Barros Bernardo Barros
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Re: [puredyne] Ubuntu Studio will use XFCE for 11.10 - collaboration?

Out of curiosity,

ppa-lowlatency is just a vanilla kernel with tweaked build options?
If so, what options are those?

Or is it based on the ck patch, or liquorix?

best,
bernardo
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ailo ailo
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Re: [puredyne] Ubuntu Studio will use XFCE for 11.10 - collaboration?

On 05/25/2011 01:07 AM, Bernardo Barros wrote:
> Out of curiosity,
>
> ppa-lowlatency is just a vanilla kernel with tweaked build options?
> If so, what options are those?

# CONFIG_NO_HZ is not set
CONFIG_PREEMPT=y
CONFIG_HZ_1000=y
CONFIG_HZ=1000
CONFIG_TREE_PREEMPT_RCU=y
CONFIG_SLAB=y
# CONFIG_DEBUG_KERNEL is not set
# CONFIG_PREEMPT_TRACER is not set
# CONFIG_RT_GROUP_SCHED is not set


>
> Or is it based on the ck patch, or liquorix?
>

No patches. But, the kernel is not vanilla. It's based on the Ubuntu
linux-generic.

> best,
> bernardo
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Bernardo Barros Bernardo Barros
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Re: [puredyne] Ubuntu Studio will use XFCE for 11.10 - collaboration?

thanks!

change from 300 to 1000 then? How much difference does it make?
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Bernardo Barros Bernardo Barros
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Re: [puredyne] Ubuntu Studio will use XFCE for 11.10 - collaboration?

btw 2.6.39 is out :-)
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Aymeric Mansoux Aymeric Mansoux
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Re: [puredyne] Ubuntu Studio will use XFCE for 11.10 - collaboration?

In reply to this post by rooss
rosea grammostola said :
> On 05/23/2011 12:15 AM, Aymeric Mansoux wrote:
> >
> >Unlike what some people have been writing, Puredyne is not based on
> >Xubuntu. We just use the standard Ubuntu repos and a few PPAs and then
> >build the distro adding software one at a time to control bloat and
> >avoid some of Canonical specific additions to Debian.
> Which Canonical additions are you talking about specifically?

Mostly those that support proprietary online services (Ubuntu One) or
promote the installation of proprietary applications (Ubuntu Software
Centre).

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ailo ailo
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Re: [puredyne] Ubuntu Studio will use XFCE for 11.10 - collaboration?

In reply to this post by Bernardo Barros
I hardly know anything about the technical aspect of the kernel and the
configs. I've only been testing the difference in practice, and for me
there has been quite a large difference between a -generic and a
-lowlatency kernel.

On 05/25/2011 04:41 AM, Bernardo Barros wrote:
> thanks!
>
> change from 300 to 1000 then? How much difference does it make?
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Re: [puredyne] Ubuntu Studio will use XFCE for 11.10 - collaboration?

In reply to this post by ailo
ailo said :

> On 05/23/2011 12:15 AM, Aymeric Mansoux wrote:
> >> The 2.6.39 kernel, as you may know, will support the use of rtirq-init
> >> script to raise priority for audio devices. For Ubuntu Natty, the kernel
> >> used is now 2.6.38.
> >> Reliability with low latencies across many systems may need to be
> >> determined, but it seems to do ok.
> >
> > Is there a PPA to test these kernels?
> >
>
> Here is the PPA we have been using for testing linux-lowlatency on Natty.
>
> ppa:abogani/ppa
>
> This PPA may disappear soon, but there will be a PPA with a
> linux-lowlatency kernel for 11.10 within a few weeks that supports
> forced irq-threading. (>2.6.38)
> The kernel is a standard Ubuntu kernel, with a few different configs.
>
> I'm hoping linux-lowlatency will end up in the main repo by the time
> 11.10 is released.

Thanks for the info!

 
> However, there is an ambition to create a live image for Ubuntu Studio.
> That task has not been properly started yet to my knowledge and is not
> planned for any specific release. Don't know what would be needed in
> order to adopt that to Ubuntu Studio, but in my view Puredyne's way of
> making a live image could just as well be the basis for how it's done
> for Ubuntu Studio.

Puredyne is built with broth which is a wrapper for Debian Live tools.
broth is AGPLv3, patches welcome, fork at will etc ;)

Otherwise I think a lot of Ubuntu based live distro do not actually
build the system from scratch but use some sort of "remix" tools that
make a snapshot of their current setup and turn that into a live
version.


> On the kernel bit it might be interesting to have more people testing it
> to find out how well it performs.
> We're going to write a script to compare -lowlatency with -generic.
> -generic has been performing quite well, but from doing only a few
> tests, -generic seems to work well on only some hardware, while
> -lowlatency is comparable or better than an -rt kernel.
> The tests have been very simple, so there may be something we are missing.

Can you tell us when such a script is available?


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