[puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

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Bernardo Barros Bernardo Barros
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[puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

And it is one of the free distros.
http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
Any chance of this happens for pure:dyne 10.06 ?
yeah, I know there is an issue with java and processing, but that's all?

2010/9/23 grant centauri <[hidden email]>:

> there's a live distro called Musix that has all of these scripts which help
> a new user get started with linux audio.  when as it finishes booting, it
> pops up a little music player which you should hear sound coming from and
> tells you if you don't to check certain things (i can't remember what,
> perhaps alsamixer).  It also has scripts to, for example: Start Rosegarden +
> Jack + and Qynth which loads up all three applications, connects them, and
> has an example file you can play to demonstrate the interaction of software.
>
> i know Pure:dyne isn't made specifically for doing music, but it might be
> nice to have at least one 'TRY ME' type of script that sort of steps through
> the process of getting audio out of pure:dyne.  I would be willing to work
> on something.  i don't know a ton about scripting but i've written a bash
> script or two... i don't know anything about zsh though.
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 4:07 PM, jm jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> 2010/9/22 geoffroy tremblay <[hidden email]>:
>> > you try to adjust alsamixer in the console ? (sorry if that is too
>> > simple -
>> > not sure what is your technical level)
>> >
>>
>> No, I didn't try alsamixer : ) That was the problem. The funny thing
>> is that Im a veteran Linux user (10 years), but I forgot alsamixer.
>> This is not so cool for newbies i guess
>>
>> --
>> Juan Manuel Jones
>>
>> ---
>> [hidden email]
>> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
>> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
>
>
> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
>

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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

2010/9/23 Bernardo Barros <[hidden email]>:

> And it is one of the free distros.
> http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
> Any chance of this happens for pure:dyne 10.06 ?
> yeah, I know there is an issue with java and processing, but that's all?
>
> 2010/9/23 grant centauri <[hidden email]>:
>> there's a live distro called Musix that has all of these scripts which help
>> a new user get started with linux audio.  when as it finishes booting, it
>> pops up a little music player which you should hear sound coming from and
>> tells you if you don't to check certain things (i can't remember what,
>> perhaps alsamixer).  It also has scripts to, for example: Start Rosegarden +
>> Jack + and Qynth which loads up all three applications, connects them, and
>> has an example file you can play to demonstrate the interaction of software.
>>
>> i know Pure:dyne isn't made specifically for doing music, but it might be
>> nice to have at least one 'TRY ME' type of script that sort of steps through
>> the process of getting audio out of pure:dyne.  I would be willing to work
>> on something.  i don't know a ton about scripting but i've written a bash
>> script or two... i don't know anything about zsh though.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 4:07 PM, jm jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> 2010/9/22 geoffroy tremblay <[hidden email]>:
>>> > you try to adjust alsamixer in the console ? (sorry if that is too
>>> > simple -
>>> > not sure what is your technical level)
>>> >
>>>
>>> No, I didn't try alsamixer : ) That was the problem. The funny thing
>>> is that Im a veteran Linux user (10 years), but I forgot alsamixer.
>>> This is not so cool for newbies i guess
>>>
>>> --
>>> Juan Manuel Jones
>>>
>>> ---
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
>>> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
>>
>>
>> ---
>> [hidden email]
>> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
>> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
>>
>
> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne

These are free distros for the FSF standars. I dont think is a good idea.


--
JM Jones

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Rob Myers Rob Myers
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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

In reply to this post by Bernardo Barros
On 09/23/2010 10:52 PM, Bernardo Barros wrote:
> And it is one of the free distros.
> http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
> Any chance of this happens for pure:dyne 10.06 ?
> yeah, I know there is an issue with java and processing, but that's all?

http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html

If Flash is included it would have to be replaced with Gnash.

The other issues I can think of would be the kernel and any nonfree
firmware. The Linux Libre kernel is a fully free Linux kernel that can
be used instead of the stock kernel:

http://www.fsfla.org/svnwiki/selibre/linux-libre/

- Rob (in a personal capacity).

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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

2010/9/23 Rob Myers <[hidden email]>:

> On 09/23/2010 10:52 PM, Bernardo Barros wrote:
>>
>> And it is one of the free distros.
>> http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
>> Any chance of this happens for pure:dyne 10.06 ?
>> yeah, I know there is an issue with java and processing, but that's all?
>
> http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html
>
> If Flash is included it would have to be replaced with Gnash.
>
> The other issues I can think of would be the kernel and any nonfree
> firmware. The Linux Libre kernel is a fully free Linux kernel that can be
> used instead of the stock kernel:
>
> http://www.fsfla.org/svnwiki/selibre/linux-libre/
>
> - Rob (in a personal capacity).
>
> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
>

Flash is a problem, drivers are a problem, firmware, etc, etc.
First, try to make that  Windows users change to a GNU&Linux distro,
that is a big step foward.

--
JM Jones

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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

In reply to this post by Bernardo Barros
I would cry to see processing and arduino leaving pure:dyne to be able to be 'free'

Although I understand the idea behind having the distribution completely free, processing and arduino (and java) was a big pull for me to pure:dyne 

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:52 PM, Bernardo Barros <[hidden email]> wrote:
And it is one of the free distros.
http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
Any chance of this happens for pure:dyne 10.06 ?
yeah, I know there is an issue with java and processing, but that's all?

2010/9/23 grant centauri <[hidden email]>:
> there's a live distro called Musix that has all of these scripts which help
> a new user get started with linux audio.  when as it finishes booting, it
> pops up a little music player which you should hear sound coming from and
> tells you if you don't to check certain things (i can't remember what,
> perhaps alsamixer).  It also has scripts to, for example: Start Rosegarden +
> Jack + and Qynth which loads up all three applications, connects them, and
> has an example file you can play to demonstrate the interaction of software.
>
> i know Pure:dyne isn't made specifically for doing music, but it might be
> nice to have at least one 'TRY ME' type of script that sort of steps through
> the process of getting audio out of pure:dyne.  I would be willing to work
> on something.  i don't know a ton about scripting but i've written a bash
> script or two... i don't know anything about zsh though.
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 4:07 PM, jm jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> 2010/9/22 geoffroy tremblay <[hidden email]>:
>> > you try to adjust alsamixer in the console ? (sorry if that is too
>> > simple -
>> > not sure what is your technical level)
>> >
>>
>> No, I didn't try alsamixer : ) That was the problem. The funny thing
>> is that Im a veteran Linux user (10 years), but I forgot alsamixer.
>> This is not so cool for newbies i guess
>>
>> --
>> Juan Manuel Jones
>>
>> ---
>> [hidden email]
>> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
>> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
>
>
> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
>

---
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Rob Myers Rob Myers
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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

On 09/24/2010 01:17 AM, geoffroy tremblay wrote:
> I would cry to see processing and arduino leaving pure:dyne to be able
> to be 'free'

Processing and Arduino both work in pure:dyne (AFAIK). The problem is
the web browser plug-in for Java. The free one doesn't work with
Processing applets.

The Processing team are really dragging their feet over this. They've
now added a pop-up dialog that appears when Processing starts up to warn
you that despite being free software, it doesn't like running with free
software. ;-)

- Rob.

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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

For Flash web stuff, Gnash isn't enough?

For drivers, that's true. I had problems with performance with nouveau
driver. Nvidia performs better on my system.... shit. BUT, I hope
nouveau get there soon. And for some people it might work.

Maybe it would be possible to make a separate repository with the
non-free alternatives like nvidia, flash ans java?

> The Processing team are really dragging their feet over this. They've now
> added a pop-up dialog that appears when Processing starts upFO to warn you
> that despite being free software, it doesn't like running with free
> software. ;-)

Well, if it depends on non-free software it can't be free software,
right? They have a plan to go out of this situation?

2010/9/24 Rob Myers <[hidden email]>:

> On 09/24/2010 01:17 AM, geoffroy tremblay wrote:
>>
>> I would cry to see processing and arduino leaving pure:dyne to be able
>> to be 'free'
>
> Processing and Arduino both work in pure:dyne (AFAIK). The problem is the
> web browser plug-in for Java. The free one doesn't work with Processing
> applets.
>
> The Processing team are really dragging their feet over this. They've now
> added a pop-up dialog that appears when Processing starts upFO to warn you
> that despite being free software, it doesn't like running with free
> software. ;-)
>
> - Rob.
>
> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
>

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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

2010/9/24 Bernardo Barros <[hidden email]>:
> For Flash web stuff, Gnash isn't enough?
>

Nop.. It doesnt work very well.

> Maybe it would be possible to make a separate repository with the
> non-free alternatives like nvidia, flash ans java?
>

The distros in the FSF list are "completely" free, no non-free
repositories are available. For that reason Debian is not in the list
(Debian has non-free repos apart)

--
JM Jones

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Aymeric Mansoux Aymeric Mansoux
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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

In reply to this post by Rob Myers
Rob Myers said :
> On 09/23/2010 10:52 PM, Bernardo Barros wrote:
> >And it is one of the free distros.
> >http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
> >Any chance of this happens for pure:dyne 10.06 ?
> >yeah, I know there is an issue with java and processing, but that's all?
>
> http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html

Sadly, following this guideline I cannot see how Puredyne could get
listed.

Of course:

We do not ship Flash.
We do not ship Nvidia or fglrx proprietary drivers.

But all this can be installed manually though via apt-get, aptitude, and
has been discussed in the past in this list or wiki(s), which is not
allowed:

"What would be unacceptable is for the documentation to give people
instructions for installing a nonfree program on the system, or mention
conveniences they might gain by doing so."

Also on the issue of nonfree firmware:

We do have alsa-firmware, because many sound cards rely on it.
We do have linux firmwares, for wireless firmwares and some graphic card
firmware (even the _free_ xorg drivers need these to have acceleration
working if I understand correctly the current situation with the xorg
radeon driver).
And as mentionned earlier, we do have sun-java because even though
open-jdk works with Processing and co, the web browser plugin, iced-tea,
is not able to run Processing applets.

Eventually the Java stuff will be solved, not worried about this, but
the firmware issue is here to stay and it will always be possible for
Puredyne users to get help here or on the wiki on how to get their
hardware running when no suitable free alternative exists.

For example in the previous wiki, in the ATI/NVIDIA Howto we were
explaining the blob issue, why it was a serious problem and pointing to
petitions asking these hardware manufacturers to help the community to
write free drivers. More on the video issue, in the last Puredyne sprint
in Helsinki, Dave and Gabor, were with us and started to work towards
full compatibility whenever possible with free drivers for their OpenGL
software, fluxus.

My position has always been to educate our users without blocking or
denying them access to free software simply because they did not even
know about such issues when they acquired their hardware in the first
place. This has proven to be an effective solution, as many Puredyne
users end up checking carefully the specs when they want to buy a new
machine or sound card, or even go later on for zero-dollar-laptop DIY
solutions.

a.
--
http://su.kuri.mu


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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Aymeric Mansoux <[hidden email]> wrote:
Rob Myers said :
> On 09/23/2010 10:52 PM, Bernardo Barros wrote:
> >And it is one of the free distros.
> >http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
> >Any chance of this happens for pure:dyne 10.06 ?
> >yeah, I know there is an issue with java and processing, but that's all?
>
> http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html

Sadly, following this guideline I cannot see how Puredyne could get
listed.

Of course:

We do not ship Flash.
We do not ship Nvidia or fglrx proprietary drivers.

But all this can be installed manually though via apt-get, aptitude, and
has been discussed in the past in this list or wiki(s), which is not
allowed:

"What would be unacceptable is for the documentation to give people
instructions for installing a nonfree program on the system, or mention
conveniences they might gain by doing so."


Just a couple of uneducated cents --

If Stallman's idea (dogma?) about free software is so restrictive, then is his imprimatur actually worth anything at all?

It seems to me this sort of requirement accomplishes little except make a system less usable (or, less widely usable) and harder to find information about how to make it usable, and as far as I can see, the benefit of this is the self-satisfaction of ideological purity.

Waste of time IMO.
James


--
James Harkins /// dewdrop world
[hidden email]
http://www.dewdrop-world.net

"Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal."  -- Whitman

blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
audio clips: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/audio
more audio: http://soundcloud.com/dewdrop_world/tracks

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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

In reply to this post by Bernardo Barros
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256



re all,

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 06:52:43PM -0300, Bernardo Barros wrote:
> And it is one of the free distros.
> http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
> Any chance of this happens for pure:dyne 10.06 ?
> yeah, I know there is an issue with java and processing, but that's all?

we are working on this at dyne.org: dyne:bolic 3.0 will based on the
GNU dyne:III core (with Debian 6 under the hood) and 100% free.

regarding processing: we've made progresses on FreeJ to render
processing scripts using a GNU GPL v3 virtual machine we've written
entirely in C/C++, which adds portability, speed and movie encoding
possibilities. once ready, this will drop dependency from java of
course.

going 100% free has many advantages (integrity, shortly put), but will
drop support for some java and flash, some 3d cards, wifi cards and
other proprietary hardware support. but then for many reasons it's
good that artists realize what really is free and what is not, who are
the hardware manufacturers to be trusted...

i've never been included in pure:dyne development for some reason i
still don't understand, but i'm open to join efforts and have more
interaction, if you like. at last, i hope you like to receive updates
on ongoing efforts to liberate our software from mental slavery.

Unity! Jah Bless You.

- --
jaromil, dyne.org developer, http://jaromil.dyne.org

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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

In reply to this post by ddw_music
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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hi James,

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 05:39:36PM +0800, James Harkins wrote:

> It seems to me this sort of requirement accomplishes little except
> make a system less usable (or, less widely usable) and harder to
> find information about how to make it usable, and as far as I can
> see, the benefit of this is the self-satisfaction of ideological
> purity.

it is not ideaological and, FWIW, not even an ethical issue for me.

the fact that laws are not enforced now doesn't means that won't be
enforced later, meanwhile we are fostering dependance of creativity
from a future possible explotiation.

ultimately, the cue point of this discussion is long-term or
short-term thinking.

> Waste of time IMO.

if you hide today the fact that some technologies aren't free,
tomorrow you'll deal with the consequences: this is the real waste of
time in doing a semi-free system, advertising it as free, IMHO.

ciao


- --
jaromil, dyne.org developer, http://jaromil.dyne.org

GPG: B2D9 9376 BFB2 60B7 601F  5B62 F6D3 FBD9 C2B6 8E39

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---
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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

In reply to this post by jaromil
hi jaromil,

I'm glad that such a project exists!  Wouldn't be nice to have some
sort of list of the supported hardware? So people could use this list
to buy the hardware that they know will work with a free operating
system.

cheers,
bernardo


2010/9/27 jaromil <[hidden email]>:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
>
>
> re all,
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 06:52:43PM -0300, Bernardo Barros wrote:
>> And it is one of the free distros.
>> http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
>> Any chance of this happens for pure:dyne 10.06 ?
>> yeah, I know there is an issue with java and processing, but that's all?
>
> we are working on this at dyne.org: dyne:bolic 3.0 will based on the
> GNU dyne:III core (with Debian 6 under the hood) and 100% free.
>
> regarding processing: we've made progresses on FreeJ to render
> processing scripts using a GNU GPL v3 virtual machine we've written
> entirely in C/C++, which adds portability, speed and movie encoding
> possibilities. once ready, this will drop dependency from java of
> course.
>
> going 100% free has many advantages (integrity, shortly put), but will
> drop support for some java and flash, some 3d cards, wifi cards and
> other proprietary hardware support. but then for many reasons it's
> good that artists realize what really is free and what is not, who are
> the hardware manufacturers to be trusted...
>
> i've never been included in pure:dyne development for some reason i
> still don't understand, but i'm open to join efforts and have more
> interaction, if you like. at last, i hope you like to receive updates
> on ongoing efforts to liberate our software from mental slavery.
>
> Unity! Jah Bless You.
>
> - --
> jaromil, dyne.org developer, http://jaromil.dyne.org
>
> GPG: B2D9 9376 BFB2 60B7 601F  5B62 F6D3 FBD9 C2B6 8E39
>
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>
> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
>

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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 02:10:09PM -0300, Bernardo Barros wrote:
> hi jaromil,
>
> I'm glad that such a project exists!  Wouldn't be nice to have some
> sort of list of the supported hardware? So people could use this list
> to buy the hardware that they know will work with a free operating
> system.

one of such lists exists here:
http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/index_html/video

BTW on the HD front (high definition) some bad news about Intel, which
we should convince to desist from such futile attempts to fight
digital nature: we've seen it with DVD before....


# Intel's latest DRM fiasco

* http://www.defectivebydesign.org/intel-hdminsult

Once again, we're seeing boneheaded reactions to the failure of a DRM
scheme. DRM is largely ineffective against large-scale un authorized
copying going on in Eastern Europe and Asia, and yet the large media
companies are happy to parade the opposite as the truth. Instead of
admitting their real goal of disrupting legitimate uses and
restricting customers as much as possible -- forcing them to
repeatedly purchase the same records, movies and TV shows again and
again -- they pretend that this is technological progress.

As you may have heard in the news, Intel is now threatening legal
action against people using the recently discovered master key for
HDMI.


ciao

- --
jaromil, dyne.org developer, http://jaromil.dyne.org

GPG: B2D9 9376 BFB2 60B7 601F  5B62 F6D3 FBD9 C2B6 8E39

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---
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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free?

In reply to this post by jaromil
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:25:56AM +0200, jaromil wrote:
> i've never been included in pure:dyne development for some reason i
> still don't understand,

well, this is clearly some resentment, and i'm exagerating it now.
we were swetting together on the first early releases of the
pure:dyne that is now called "legacy".

if you like to accept at least a suggestion on the present pure:dyne:
please change the usb-stick "jewel" boxes as they contain a magnet and
if messy people like me try to stick another usb in that box, it can
get de-magnetized. damn.

in the past years i was watching and recommending people around the
good work goto10 made on efficiency and usability... however, on the
dynebolic side we continued studying and doing experiments on how to
customize things. together with Asbesto Molesto and Fruity we analyzed
pure:dyne and Ubuntu 10.4

http://lab.dyne.org/UbuntuPurification

http://lab.dyne.org/DyneBolicCreate

rsync dev.dynebolic.org::dyneIII

the rsync repository is just an alpha release and not completely
cleaned up from non-libre software, yet. it's based on the latest
pure:dyne, but we need to do much more to cleanup non-free parts, port
all to debian 6 and replace some software.

we need some money for cowbuilders, so we accept donations for this
development round if you like, on http://pledgie.com/campaigns/13551

ciao

- --
jaromil, dyne.org developer, http://jaromil.dyne.org

GPG: B2D9 9376 BFB2 60B7 601F  5B62 F6D3 FBD9 C2B6 8E39
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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

In reply to this post by jaromil
I do understand the idea behind free open software, but at a certain degree it becomes political more than about creativity. 

If, by following some restrictive pattern of free software ,the artist is removed from some major tools to create - there seems to go against the idea. I don't see much 'free' in the 3d acceleration card - so what does it leaves me with if my creative impulse is leading me toward massively exploiting 3d acceleration? 

For me to a certain extent there is politic and there is art. They both affect each other and for me I think the creative impulse has to go beyond these limitation. Already taking a stance against apple and Microsoft by using open source in the OS and all the tools is already a big shift, having the purity of everything should be 'free' seems like ideological extremism that doesn't serve much purpose apart for self glorification at the end of the day. 

In the end what I think is important to look at is what block the creative impulse, if it's big corporation with expensive software and closed source tool that fill all the market block the creative impulse, then lets work against these flow. In the other hand if being 'free' means to block some creative impulse then what is the benefit from that. I think the middle path is more interesting for me at the moment. 

All that being said ~ that is how I feel this morning, it might change with time ;) And would be really interested to read about what 'free' software can support as far as 3d acceleration with some humph to it! 

I think we are all doing a great job, some are more at one extreme and some are more to another extreme, but we all seems to want to bring a new awareness to computational art. 

light 


On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:04 PM, jaromil <[hidden email]> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 02:10:09PM -0300, Bernardo Barros wrote:
> hi jaromil,
>
> I'm glad that such a project exists!  Wouldn't be nice to have some
> sort of list of the supported hardware? So people could use this list
> to buy the hardware that they know will work with a free operating
> system.

one of such lists exists here:
http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/index_html/video

BTW on the HD front (high definition) some bad news about Intel, which
we should convince to desist from such futile attempts to fight
digital nature: we've seen it with DVD before....


# Intel's latest DRM fiasco

* http://www.defectivebydesign.org/intel-hdminsult

Once again, we're seeing boneheaded reactions to the failure of a DRM
scheme. DRM is largely ineffective against large-scale un authorized
copying going on in Eastern Europe and Asia, and yet the large media
companies are happy to parade the opposite as the truth. Instead of
admitting their real goal of disrupting legitimate uses and
restricting customers as much as possible -- forcing them to
repeatedly purchase the same records, movies and TV shows again and
again -- they pretend that this is technological progress.

As you may have heard in the news, Intel is now threatening legal
action against people using the recently discovered master key for
HDMI.


ciao

- --
jaromil, dyne.org developer, http://jaromil.dyne.org

GPG: B2D9 9376 BFB2 60B7 601F  5B62 F6D3 FBD9 C2B6 8E39

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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free?

In reply to this post by jaromil
2010/9/27 jaromil <[hidden email]>:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>

> http://lab.dyne.org/UbuntuPurification

A couple of useful things, but if Ubuntu is so stupid, why do you not
use Debian???
I see the changes in the GUI as good.

> http://lab.dyne.org/DyneBolicCreate

Good help.

>
> rsync dev.dynebolic.org::dyneIII

--
JM Jones

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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

In reply to this post by Damaru
Just to clarify my earlier comment -- I'm generally sympathetic to the concerns motivating free software (this is part of the reason why I'm switching to Linux after using Mac for a couple of decades now).

But when free software advocates insist that the documentation -- documentation, not code -- must not help users install non-free components, then I have to get off the train. Where's the boundary? "Sorry, your distribution can no longer be considered free because you have a web forum and some user mentioned once how to install flash"? I don't know if it's really that restrictive, but if it is, that's left the realm of common sense.

The other thing that bugs me about this is the use of a broad word -- "free" -- for a specific idea from the FSF. When everybody has a different idea of "free," that conversation isn't going very far.

So, generally sympathetic to the FSF's goals, yes, but also skeptical.
James


--
James Harkins /// dewdrop world
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"Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal."  -- Whitman

blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
audio clips: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/audio
more audio: http://soundcloud.com/dewdrop_world/tracks

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Bernardo Barros Bernardo Barros
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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

Hi James,

Not sure but I suspect that the problem is not mentioning, but
_encouraging_ the use of non-free software.

Yes, I see the point here. For some situations is simply not reliable
to use _just_ free software, but sometimes there is no need to have
some pieces of non-free software. The processing and Flash problem are
easy to solve because it is just a matter of time to see reliable
options. But other pieces are harder to solve.


2010/9/28 James Harkins <[hidden email]>:

> Just to clarify my earlier comment -- I'm generally sympathetic to the
> concerns motivating free software (this is part of the reason why I'm
> switching to Linux after using Mac for a couple of decades now).
>
> But when free software advocates insist that the documentation --
> documentation, not code -- must not help users install non-free components,
> then I have to get off the train. Where's the boundary? "Sorry, your
> distribution can no longer be considered free because you have a web forum
> and some user mentioned once how to install flash"? I don't know if it's
> really that restrictive, but if it is, that's left the realm of common
> sense.
>
> The other thing that bugs me about this is the use of a broad word -- "free"
> -- for a specific idea from the FSF. When everybody has a different idea of
> "free," that conversation isn't going very far.
>
> So, generally sympathetic to the FSF's goals, yes, but also skeptical.
> James
>
>
> --
> James Harkins /// dewdrop world
> [hidden email]
> http://www.dewdrop-world.net
>
> "Come said the Muse,
> Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
> Sing me the universal."  -- Whitman
>
> blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
> audio clips: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/audio
> more audio: http://soundcloud.com/dewdrop_world/tracks
>
> ---
> [hidden email]
> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
>

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Bernardo Barros Bernardo Barros
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Re: [puredyne] Next pure:dyne will be free? Re: low volume

In reply to this post by Damaru
hi geoffroy,

I don't think you can link to closely creativity with the number and
quality of tools you have. See the history of electronic music, for
example. Most of the more compelling and creative works are from the
50's, like Stockhausen's Gesang der Jünglinge. Sometimes a few open
tools offer more possibilities for creativity then a lot of
sophisticated closed tools. Just my view.

2010/9/28 geoffroy tremblay <[hidden email]>:

> I do understand the idea behind free open software, but at a certain degree
> it becomes political more than about creativity.
> If, by following some restrictive pattern of free software ,the artist is
> removed from some major tools to create - there seems to go against the
> idea. I don't see much 'free' in the 3d acceleration card - so what does it
> leaves me with if my creative impulse is leading me toward massively
> exploiting 3d acceleration?
> For me to a certain extent there is politic and there is art. They both
> affect each other and for me I think the creative impulse has to go beyond
> these limitation. Already taking a stance against apple and Microsoft by
> using open source in the OS and all the tools is already a big shift, having
> the purity of everything should be 'free' seems like ideological extremism
> that doesn't serve much purpose apart for self glorification at the end of
> the day.
> In the end what I think is important to look at is what block the creative
> impulse, if it's big corporation with expensive software and closed source
> tool that fill all the market block the creative impulse, then lets work
> against these flow. In the other hand if being 'free' means to block some
> creative impulse then what is the benefit from that. I think the middle path
> is more interesting for me at the moment.
> All that being said ~ that is how I feel this morning, it might change with
> time ;) And would be really interested to read about what 'free' software
> can support as far as 3d acceleration with some humph to it!
> I think we are all doing a great job, some are more at one extreme and some
> are more to another extreme, but we all seems to want to bring a new
> awareness to computational art.
> light
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:04 PM, jaromil <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 02:10:09PM -0300, Bernardo Barros wrote:
>> > hi jaromil,
>> >
>> > I'm glad that such a project exists!  Wouldn't be nice to have some
>> > sort of list of the supported hardware? So people could use this list
>> > to buy the hardware that they know will work with a free operating
>> > system.
>>
>> one of such lists exists here:
>> http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/index_html/video
>>
>> BTW on the HD front (high definition) some bad news about Intel, which
>> we should convince to desist from such futile attempts to fight
>> digital nature: we've seen it with DVD before....
>>
>>
>> # Intel's latest DRM fiasco
>>
>> * http://www.defectivebydesign.org/intel-hdminsult
>>
>> Once again, we're seeing boneheaded reactions to the failure of a DRM
>> scheme. DRM is largely ineffective against large-scale un authorized
>> copying going on in Eastern Europe and Asia, and yet the large media
>> companies are happy to parade the opposite as the truth. Instead of
>> admitting their real goal of disrupting legitimate uses and
>> restricting customers as much as possible -- forcing them to
>> repeatedly purchase the same records, movies and TV shows again and
>> again -- they pretend that this is technological progress.
>>
>> As you may have heard in the news, Intel is now threatening legal
>> action against people using the recently discovered master key for
>> HDMI.
>>
>>
>> ciao
>>
>> - --
>> jaromil, dyne.org developer, http://jaromil.dyne.org
>>
>> GPG: B2D9 9376 BFB2 60B7 601F  5B62 F6D3 FBD9 C2B6 8E39
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>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>> ---
>> [hidden email]
>> http://identi.ca/group/puredyne
>> irc://irc.goto10.org/puredyne
>
>
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